GF grip fasteners coming loose / how hard do I need to tighten these things?

[1sascha]

Going to necro this one as the misfires have started up again - but only after I had upgraded to the MCG Ultimate. After my last post in this thread, the problems with the MCGP never came back, but once I had the Ultimate installed, I was getting those misfires again. And just like with the MCGP with problematic fasteners, it always seems to be the brake-lever's button (I have it set to act as a button in VKB Config) that misfires. There *might* be some misfires from the side-hat's push function or the flip trigger's button press I've set up (button 23 or button 25) but I'm not 100% on those misfires (as they aren't that obvious to track) or which of the two buttons "misfires" as both 23 and 25 are mapped to trigger the same action in-game.

The problem is that this behavior will *always* rear its ugly head during every flying session, but there doesn't seem to be any sort of pattern here for me to find that would point to the actual cause. Sometimes it will happen after five minutes of flying, at other times it takes much longer (like 20 minutes +). It's also not a constant occurrence once it starts to happen... meaning it will happen once, maybe twice, then everything works normal for 10, 15 or 20 minutes and then I might get another misfire or two. The only thing that's certain is that it *will* happen over a 2 - 3 hour session (I use the stick almost every day).

I did watch my fasteners very closely and whenever I got misfires I would check both of them for looseness, but ...

VKB already sent me another fresh fastener (the other one I use came with the Ultimate and is practically new), but that hasn't fixed it. I also swapped out my gimbal's contact pad for a brand new one - the problem started right after I started using the Ultimate (and while on the old pad), so I thought it might finally be time for a new pad - but that also hasn't fixed it.

I also tried using different USB sockets and switched the stick to my powered USB-hub last night, but that also hasn't changed anything.

Since this behavior is regular yet unpredictable, it's kinda hard to share any more observations ... the only thing I did manage to see was this: I was checking connection error levels in VKB Config with the Ultimate installed, then grabbed the stick by the extension (not by the grip) and let it bounce up and down (along the Y-axis) in quick succession, which, after a few seconds of doing that, caused a large red spike in the error-level report. Normally the graph is all green and very flat (occasional mini-spikes of 1, 2 or 3 percent). I haven't been able to replicate this particular behavior since - neither while I was using one slightly older fastener nor with the new one(s) installed.

EDIT: Caught a glimpse of the grip's LEDs twice tonight while getting those phantom presses... looked like a grip disconnection. Both LEDs went off, then both white, then back to left LED green.

I'm still in contact with my VKB rep trying to figure out what is going on here. The only two options left now, I suppose, are to try the grip directly on the base (without my extension installed) or to open up the grip and replace the male contact pad and its cables. The latter of which I am really not looking forward to. And since the extension was in use already before the Ultimate (when I didn't have any more misfires), I'm not sure the extension is at fault here, but... who knows?


S.

[Ron61]

We need screenshots of the Global-External, Profile -Axes tabs. And photos of the base and extension rods.

[1sascha]

Hope the files I attached are enough. The Zip contains three photos, two of the extension (upper and lower) and one of the gimbal's stem/rod and contact pad. Note that this was taken after I had replaced my gimbal's old contact pad with a fresh one, as the old one was a bit scratched up.

Also: While corresponding with my local VKB-rep, I noticed that the Ultimate's grip-pad (the male one) sits in the grip quite "loose". I was checking with a wooden toothpick to see if the pins were moving in and out and noticed that the whole pad could be moved about in there. Not sure if this makes a difference or not, but I did then check my MCGP's male pad which sat a little tighter and the male pad in the extension which couldn't be moved at all (probably glued in place?).

In any case: I shot a short video - it's a bit blurry, but I think you can see what I'm trying to show here...

https://youtube.com/shorts/9QOO4JsHD18?feature=share


Again: I have no idea if this is abnormal or if this could even have anything to do with the problem, but I thought I'd bring it up, just in case.

I might be totally wrong on this one (as a new fastener hasn't *really* cured the problem), but the way it feels to me, it still seems like some sort of "mechanical" problem. I mean... I will only ever start to get these phantom presses after I've flown a while. Two nights ago for example, the problem didn't start until 40 or even 50 minutes of flying had passed. And before that session, I did tighten both fasteners harder than I would've liked (used the long lever of my t-handle hex-key).


S.

[Ron61]

Try the latest firmware and software, and don't forget the simple rule (see picture).

To identify the problem area, you can try this algorithm:
1. exclude the extension cord and put the grip directly on the base, analyze after some time of use
2. do a full revision of the contacts in the extension cord, with a complete disassembly of it
3. to check the possible closure of 2 crackers when the screw is fully tightened, cut a washer from scotch tape (electrical tape) or other similar material (paper) (see picture)

проверка.png (1.95 KiB) Viewed 2970 times

, which is inserted between them. After tightening, its appearance should make it clear whether the crackers are closing or not.

[1sascha]

Thanks Ron!
Do you have any thoughts about that "male" pad inside the grip moving around like that (as shown in the video I linked?) It can be moved around both "horizontally" and it will also "tilt" a bit when I touch the pins with a toothpick. Is this normal behavior? Like I said: The male pad in my extension cannot be moved at all, but there no way for me to know if that even makes a difference.


So... these two?

IIRC, the ones I use were the most current SW and Firmware I could find on the VKB-site when I received the Ultimate about a month ago.. wasn't aware there were more current/beta ones available..


This only ever started when I installed the Ultimate - so I'm not sure if the extension could be at fault (it had worked fine for months and months before with the MCGP) - but I guess nothing's impossible. I'm also not sure how to disassemble the extension - but I might give it a try.

Putting the grip directly onto the base is probably what I'll try first - it'll be a bit of an operation as I will have to reduce my spring strength if I want to use the GF without the extension (I run very hard springs). And using it for more than a few minutes seems to be the only way to trigger these phantom presses. Last week, I already mounted the grip without the extension with VKB Config and JoyTester open (so I could see any phantom presses) and just moved the stick around for three or four minutes, but nothing happened.




Cheers

S.

[1sascha]

Checked the fastener with a piece of paper, and the two halves seem to be only touching the gimbal/extension stem, not each other. There are markings in the metal on both the left and right piece where they "bite" into the gimbal stem.Which is how things should be, AFAIK.

VKB rep suggested I should open the grip to try and get that male pad to stop moving around. So I went and bought a hot glue gun, opened the grip, removed the connector part and then the pad from that and put a bit of glue on the insulated part of the pad's cable-strand. And I also pushed the vertical, rubber "locking thingy" that secures that little tab on the pad a bit further down when I was re-assembling the grip. Result was that the pad now sits in there very securely (like the one on my extension does). Flew again to test if anything had changed and all was good for about 50 minutes, when I got a few phantom presses again... (*sigh!*). Session was three hours long and I got three or four of those presses over that time. Doesn't sound too bad, but I don't think this is how things should work.

I also checked the grip's male pad's cables/wires and noticed that two of them came out of the plug very easily with just minimal force (they came out when I checked if they were sitting in the plug securely). Re-inserted the wires and squeezed those plastic nose on the plug in to secure the wires and now they won't come out. I do have a replacement pad sent to me by the VKB rep, but I haven't replaced the original pad yet.

Problem is that if this was related to a loose connection/wire/whatever: Shouldn't I be getting more of these malfunctions and more often? As it is, I can fly for 10, 20 minutes or even longer without any issue, but the phantom presses will come, eventually. And they aren't coming constantly when they do happen, but more like two, three in a minute or so and then things can quiet down again for 5 or 10 minutes before the next phantom press. And this doesn't make any sense to me.

Another thing I noticed: Lowest grip-casing screw on the left side was hard to remove - when I took it out, I saw there was a bit of blue Loctite on there, which no other of the six housing-screws had on them. When I tried to re-assemble the grip, I noticed that I couldn't get that screw to "bite", so I spent two hours tinkering with all the screws, trying all the other ones of the same size in that hole, but none bit. The super long one from the top of the grip bit, but its thread is much longer - so I looked into the threaded hole the screw goes into and it looks like the threads are worn/ground down on the first couple of turns. The super long screw from up top still goes into that hole and will screw down, but the shorter black screws that are meant to go in there cannot reach that deep.

All of which explains why the grip has always had a gap between the two halves down low towards the bottom of the grip - I noticed this weeks ago, but didn't think anything of it. Having now seen that one screw with Loctite on it, I suspect this could've been a "fix" done at the factory to work around faulty threads - just glue the screw in place so it won't fall out - but that screw probably never exerted much force down there - hence the gap between left and right half of the grip housing. Not sure if that has anything to do with my phantom-press-problem, but I thought I'd mention it.

This is what the grip looks now, without that screw installed (it will just fall out, no matter how many times I try to screw it down, so I removed it):

And here's what the grip looked like on Jul 18th 2024, shortly after UPS had delivered it:

S.