ATTENTION *** VKB clashed with me

[III Blanco III]

Basically I was just asking if my procedure was good and if there was any documentation on an error code.

Playing on Elite Dangerous, I was forced to virtualize (Gladiator + SEM) and the error "Defined logical button #XX exceeds permitted HID button (32)" appeared. It's all in the first post!

20 days later, I have not had the slightest response. And VKB no longer wants to talk to me or help me.

I'm interested in your opinion.
Good reading.



#13577 Defined logical button #XX exceeds permitted HID button (32)

Stephane reported 19 days ago

Hello,
I'm having some issues creating Virtuals Controllers (I'm using Elite dangerous!) with a left omni gladiator and SEM.

My procedure:
1/ Default button
2/ Calibration
3/ Global/Common/Basic/#Goal: 32
4/ Global/Common/Basic/VC: 1
5/ Set
6/ Stopping the application, disconnecting the gladiator, restart application and device report (I noticed that there were problems otherwise).

Is this normal?
Afterwards I have problems with the modifications on the landing gear and even more errors ^^ (a lot of Defined logical button #XX exceeds permitted HID button (32) and gladiator blocked after Set)

Maybe I'm not doing things right!!
I can't find any help regarding these "Defined logical button #XX exceeds permitted HID button (32)" in NJoy32 Family Controllers Configuration Utility User guide.

Can you help me please ?
Sorry for my English (I'm French)
I'm new to VKB device config, be indulgent

Best regards
Stephane
**************************************************************************************

Stephane, said 17 days ago

Hello,

I think there is a problem at https://flightsimcontrols.com/customer-support/
I cannot access my tickets with a simple click (chrome, edge, etc.).
I just discovered that by doing "Open in new tab", it works!

I'm still waiting for feedback regarding my problem of "Defined logical button #XX exceeds permitted HID button (32)"

Thank you for your help.
best regards
Stephane
**************************************************************************************

Stephane, said 15 days ago

Well, either my question is stupid or it is disturbing ^^
But doesn’t it deserve at least an answer?
**************************************************************************************

VKB FSC Europe , said 13 days ago

Hello Stephane,

​sorry for my late response! It's no a stupid question or disturbing in any way. Your ticket was just in a support queue and I catch it only now.
Anyway, I'll do my best to solve your issue. But I won't be able to answer at once in a couple of seconds so please take it with understanding and be patient.
Tell me what you like to do. What's your purpose to configurate device with several virtual devices etc.
The error you mean, I can suppose, appears because you try to use same logical button for two different physical buttons.

---
best wishes,
Anton VKB FSC
**************************************************************************************

Stephane, said 12 days ago

Hello Anton, glad to read you,
No problem for the delay and thank you for your help.
I got into bad habits with Valer's high response speed

Ok, so ^^
Even if the reason that pushes me to configure a device with several virtual devices doesn't matter, I'll tell you why I do that: Elite dangerous is one of the games that I use. And ED only manages 32 physical buttons per device. And for the record I have a Gladiator + SEM

"The error you mean, I can suppose, appears because you try to use same logical button for two different physical buttons."
I invite you to calmly reread my first post, the procedure I used (Global/Common/Basic/#But: 32 --- Global/Common/Basic/VC: 1 --- Set). And that's all ! No more configuration !!
(Sorry, Google trad translate "#But" in "#Goal" in my first post)

No "try to use same logical button for two different physical buttons" just the basic settings proposed in the VKBDevCfg-C.exe application (see "My procedure" please).
Afterwards yes but all I need to resolve this problem before going any further (well, I think!)

Do you have any documentation on this problem?
Other people seem to have had the same problem but no feedback from them or even answers (in the forum), this error message seems a bit mysterious!!
Am I doing something wrong?

After resolving this problem, I would ask you for help me in configuring the landing gear switch. But, one thing at a time
And maybe I'll re-watch your videos again on the software ^^

At your service if you need more details
And once again, thank you for your help
Stéphane
**************************************************************************************

VKB FSC Europe , said 10 days ago

Hi Stephane,
okay, thanks for details!
I'll try to reproduce your case bz me and then let you know.

---
best wishes,
Anton VKB FSC
**************************************************************************************

Stephane, said 7 days ago
Hello Anton
No news, good news ^^

I thought of something of my own and also found this :
https://www.reddit.com/r/hotas/comments ... ing_issue/

In my procedure (1st post), I disconnected the gladiator from the USB port.
And worse, later I changed PC!!
Always a lot of "Defined logical button #XX exceeds permitted HID button (32)" with Device report.

Maybe a problem with the "AutoMapping" option in "Profile/Buttons/logical layer (see attach file) !!??

Looking forward to your return ^^
Best regards.
Stéphane.
**************************************************************************************

Stephane, said 5 days ago
So !?
**************************************************************************************

VKB FSC Europe , said 2 days ago

Hi,
I haven't tested it yet.
I'll let you know as soon as I have results.

---
best wishes,
Anton VKB FSC
**************************************************************************************

Stephane, said a day ago
Ok Anton, wrong answer!

I asked for help 18 days ago (!!!!) and in return you told me that nothing had been tested, that I would have an answer as soon as possible!
I don't believe it, I think that this is just a technique to fall asleep and that I will never have an answer to my problem.

I saw on the forums that the question was evaded, remained unanswered and I don't think I would have any more luck. Why?
Is the problem so annoying for VKB?
Because I'm not the first to encounter this kind of problem. There must be workarounds.

In addition you don't answer me regarding the "AutoMapping" option in "Profile/Buttons/logical layer.
You could have at least explained to me if the idea was good (because I'm doing tests on my own and giving you feedback).

So, I'm terribly disappointed because I feel like I'm being taken for an idiot :/

In any case, Valer was much more efficient and I miss this efficiency.
Is it possible to return to him?

S.
**************************************************************************************

VKB FSC Europe , said 19 hours ago

Ok Stephane, wrong manners!

Do you really think that there is only your single support ticket and only this should be solved right here and now???
There are more important cases due to technical issues in comparison with yours where is some user's misconfiguration.
I didn't write you "Sorry, that's out of our hands as you configurated your device wrong. Reset it to default and read the manual carefully".
I have offered you my help instead of RTFM. When it's to hard for you to take it with understanding and wait a bit longer than a week, then RTFM.

P.S. I couldn't say anything regarding the AutoMapping as I have to test it firstly with your configuration. Usually it's no matter if you use AutoMapping or not, the button would be assigned properly.

P.S.S. The ticket is re-assigned to Valer as wished.

---
best wishes,
Anton VKB FSC
**************************************************************************************

Stephane, said 14 hours ago
ANSWER FOR ANTON

“Ok Stephane, wrong manners!”
Anton, I think it's you who has bad manners. Pointing this out to me is inappropriate in your position.
But I understand that you don't like me criticizing your way of doing things!

*****
“Do you really think that there is only your single support ticket and only this should be solved right here and now???”
Anton, I'm an IT professional and I do customer support so I know I'm not the only one!
Just, don't be arrogant please.
But I see when someone is playing for time. Sorry!

****
Because indeed, I was not satisfied with your answers (they clearly suggested that you had not read my first post properly):

"The error you mean, I can suppose, appears because you try to use same logical button for two different physical buttons."
I invite you to calmly reread my first post, the procedure I used (Global/Common/Basic/#But: 32 --- Global/Common/Basic/VC: 1 --- Set). And that's all! No more configuration!!

No "try to use same logical button for two different physical buttons" just the basic settings proposed in the VKBDevCfg-C.exe application (see "My procedure" please).


****
You don't answer my questions:

“Do you have any documentation on this problem?”
Defined logical button #XX exceeds permitted HID button (32)

“Am I doing something wrong?”
In reference to my procedure!!

"Maybe a problem with the "AutoMapping" option in "Profile/Buttons/logical layer (see attach file)!!??"
I was just referring here to your experience, without asking for a physical test identical to my config. Considering reproducing my config should come later in my opinion, it was only on the third request that I finally got feedback. ("Usually it's no matter if you use AutoMapping or not, the button would be assigned properly.")


****
You say: "There are more important cases due to technical issues in comparison with yours where is some user's misconfiguration."
Seriously, am I not important?
Ok, so I understand that if I don't buy 36 devices, that I don't do anything in the settings, I'm not important!
I'm just making a configuration to have 2 logical devices.
This could come from a software problem, maybe firmware or other (or maybe "user error" ^^). If this is the case, this should interest you in a quality approach with a view to a future update. Ok I'm extrapolating ^^


"I have offered you my help instead of RTFM. When it's hard for you to take it with understanding and wait a bit longer than a week, then RTFM."
You say you don't do it, but you do it anyway. Well done!


****
In short, this post started badly (“queue support”, bug, etc.) and ended no better!
My experience with you, Anton, was not pleasant at all.
I am saddened by this because I also understand that as an employee, it is not easy every day.

So ! Let's close this misunderstanding and not talk about it anymore, I'll let you draw your own conclusions.
Anyway, thanks for redirecting my request to Valer.

Best regards.
S.
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Stephane, said 13 hours ago
Hi Valer, nice to see you again.

Sorry for the little clash with Anton. It's Ok for me, the problem is closed

I'll let you reacquaint yourself with my problem (good reading, it's a bit long sometimes ^^).
The first post is important and I think another one might be interesting (the one with the reddit link).

I am open to all suggestions and available for further details, manipulations, screenshots, tests and more

Best regards.
Stephane
**************************************************************************************

VKB FSC Europe , said 7 hours ago
Hello Stephane,

You are free to experiment with the VKB devices, but we are not a consultancy company to help everyone with their experiments.

If you rather want the devices to work as intended again, please reset to default. The rest you can find in the manual and on our youtube tutorial page:

https://www.youtube.com/@VKBSim

I would also advise you to get to Reddit or to our own forum and ask the users there who are using Elite dangerous whether they can help you herewith.

Kind regards,
Valer.
**************************************************************************************

Stephane, said 2 hours ago
Hello Valer,

I understand your reaction, however it is good to recall a few details:
After a reset to default I do :
- "Global/Common/Basic/#But: 32"
- "Global/Common/Basic/VC: 1"
- “Set”
As indicated in the manual and in your videos.
I get several "Defined logical button #XX exceeds permitted HID button (32)" in device report.

I'm just asking you if this is normal, if I did something wrong in my procedure. That's all !

Because if everything is OK, there may be a hardware problem or a software problem.
And at that point, it falls within the scope of the warranty.
It seems logical to me to look a little further to determine the cause of the problem. Depending on the situation, this remains your responsibility.
To find out, you have to do a little research and I am totally willing to offer my help and work together to find the cause.

You tell me to look in the manual or in the tutorial videos.
I already searched in the manual, watched all the tutorial videos but I found nothing regarding the error message "Defined logical button #XX exceeds permitted HID button (32)"
Please, can you tell me where to find this information in the manual or i the videos?

Depending on the results, it may be necessary for you to reproduce the problem, but we are not there yet.
First, is my procedure OK?
This may be due to a mistake on my part, it's possible and I hope, because it would be simpler than using the warranty or any other recourse!

Kind regards,
Stephane
**************************************************************************************

VKB FSC Europe , said 2 hours ago

Hi Stephane,

Please read my previous post.

If you want the device to work properly, reset to Default and use it as intended. If this does not work this way anymore it is the warranty case. If it does, all the experimentation is your responsibility.

We are not able to consult all our buyers on the results of their experimentations. We have no resources for that.

Best regards,
Valer.
**************************************************************************************

Stephane, said an hour ago
Valer,

I don't think that in a legal framework, the malfunction of the software associated with the hardware you sell is not your responsibility.

In short, I notice above all that following the disagreement I had with Anton, you decided to no longer help me at all. It's not very fair play on your part, I justified my annoyance and I think it was justified.
Even before that, I had made it clear that VKB did not want to delve too deeply into this problem of "Defined logical button #XX exceeds permitted HID button (32)".

If necessary, I will ask questions on the forums and speak to the community, you are not essential. But I will probably warn them of the derogatory attitude that you have towards your customers, it is an important detail in the act of purchasing!

I'm going to do the necessary tests and figure it out on my own.
Even if it means making use of the warranty because there are also laws and you cannot escape them!


I don't really need you but you would have saved me time, and you made me waste too much!!
And given your lamentable attitude, I prefer not to solicit you anymore.

A dissatisfied customer.
Bye
**************************************************************************************

VKB FSC Europe , said 25 minutes ago
Hi Stephane,

We know what is legal and what is not. I have described it already in my previous answer.

We are not obliged to provide any assistance as in your case. We offered to investigate, while our resources are very limited. You expressed your disgrace just because we did not treat you as most important person of the world to be placed above all other customers. That's OK. But now we just have no time anymore for that, and for arguing with you.

It is your best right to tell anybody anywhere what you think of us. But then please provide the whole conversation there, instead of stating "Oh I am so good, and they are so bad bad bad".
​
All of good luck and happy flying!
​
Yours,
Valer.
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Stephane, said 18 minutes ago
Ok, I'll take your word for it and post the entire discussion on your forum.
**************************************************************************************

Stephane, said 9 hours ago
And don't forget that I just asked you if my procedure was good, if I hadn't made a mistake and if you had documentation on the error code. That's all (see my first message)
This should have taken you 5 minutes.

“You expressed your disgrace just because we did not treat you as most important person of the world to be placed above all other customers”
Just take the time to read what customers write to you before disgracing them like you do.
Personally, I had time. On the other hand, you are very sensitive. Just read next time
**************************************************************************************

So !
I certainly didn't let myself be fooled but you have to keep in mind that I was just asking if my procedure was good and if there was any documentation on an error code. I find their reaction a little exaggerated even if I can understand.
If anyone has already encountered the problem with the error code "Defined logical button #XX exceeds permitted HID button (32)" I am interested in the explanations and solutions found

Thank you.
Stephane.

[Delta]

Hi Stephane,

I just tried it on my STECS and I can definitely reproduce what you are observing. I also understand your frustrations with EU support. If issues need to be triaged to receive barely adequate response times to user's questions, and everything else just falls off, that points to a support team that is understaffed and/or overworked.

That said, you lost a lot of my personal sympathy (as a fellow customer who spent over €1000 at FSC over the years) when your arguments started sounding like this:

Pointing this out to me is inappropriate in your position.

I certainly hope that this is the language barrier and you are getting exasperated at a perceived hypocrisy when it comes to deciding an appropriate tone for the conversation, and not somthing about putting workers in their place.

Now to the technical problem at hand:
I think it is clear to me that the issue is not caused by auto-mapping, nor by duplicate assignment, nor by any other user error. It is caused by the fact that the device report does not take into account split controllers like that. I would expect that this is a (fairly minor) bug or missing feature (depending on how you want to look at it) in VKBDevCfg. But you are in luck because nothing about this error message is preventing you from using your stick in-game, the issue is purely cosmetic in nature.

As for the other errors you reported - having to restart VKBDevCfg and reconnect the controller after Set, and "problems with the modifications of the landing gear", I do not have any experience with what might cause that. But I strongly doubt that it is in any way related to the "Defined logical button exceeds permitted HID button" error message.

I would very much appreciate more details regarding both of these actual functional errors, to maybe help reproduce and investigate them and find a solution for them. So, some questions to get started:

As for step 6 of your procedure:
What exact problems show up if you do not restart VKBDevCfg and reconnect the controller?

As for the landng gear problems:
What is the exact nature of those problems? How did you modify your landing gear switch?

I recommend you stick to community support for software issues like that. Vendor support lines are no more familiar with the operation of the software than some of the more enthusiastic users. Vendor support can help you if you need any part replacements or exchanges or experience order issues. Software-related questions tend to get you better (i.e. faster and more accurate responses) here and on the official VKBSim Discord channel.

Full disclosure: I am a Discord moderator for VKB. I am not a VKB employee, I am a customer and community member who has admittedly received some forms of consideration from VKB connected to my moderation and support activities on Discord. Most of that consideration has come from VKB HQ in China though, the vast majority of my experience with VKB FSC Europe has been as a paying customer.

[Ron61]

Screenshots from the configurator will be better than any words. You need the Global-Common, Global-External, Profile-Buttons tabs.

[fallout9]

Stephane. Reading the whole exchange was painful and I don't understand how it got there. We'll definitely have a conversation with the 2 reps in order to avoid this bs in the future. But what's done is done, so let's see what could be done in order to get your issues fixed. Please state again your issues and we'll try to help you here. You could also come on our Discord server, the community could also help with software issues like this; please buzz me anytime over there (VKB Operator) for any hardware or software issues and I'll make sure you'll get what you need.

[III Blanco III]

Hello everyone and thank you for your answers
Indeed my English is not in the best shape! But be sure that I'm not here to be derogatory, it's Google's fault ^^ And if that happens, don't hesitate to tell me. I'm confused in advance.

@Delta:
It's true, I admit, I was "exasperated by a perceived hypocrisy", and the impression of wasting my time by looking like a bit of an idiot (and the language barrier shouldn't have helped me much on !).
I'm not the type to let things happen, not at my age anymore ^^
But besides that, I also made it clear that I could understand the reaction, and as an employee, I also knew that it wasn't easy every day!
I didn't come here to get angry or be rude, not at all. And if you read me, you probably understood it
And of course, thank you for your help.

@Ron61:
There were screenshots in my original post.
As you say: "Screenshots from the configurator will be better than any words."
I'm going to do some tests again this weekend to get off to a good start.
Thank you for your help.

@Fallout9:
Thank you for your comment. Don't be too hard on the two responsible. As @Delta said, "this indicates an understaffed and/or overworked support team." And I would add that it is not always easy to understand each other well in writing and that it is not uncommon for there to be a misinterpretation of the tone used. However, it is important to read the initial request carefully and to stay calm
Valer did a very good job with my order and with my doubts about Gladiator + SEM-V connection.
Thank you for the help offered. I will take note of this and will probably get back to you ^^



My technical problem:
As I was waiting for feedback on my error message and it was taking time I went back to the simplest possible configuration for Elite Dangerous (because I also wanted to enjoy my new toys ^^):
- "Global/Common/Basic/#But: 32"
- "Global/Common/Basic/VC: 1"
And that's good, it works but with the error message in report!

At first, I had set the SEM-V's "landing gear" button as a single button (identical in all three positions). But these were my first settings and I don't really remember what I did. In the end, I had a complete blocking of Gladiator+SEM, so reset to default with simple virtualization for ED!
Being in IT, I told myself that it would be better to first solve the problem of "Defined logical button #XX exceeds permitted HID button (32)" before going any further.

I delved into the tutorials and documentation but without success regarding my problem. So here I am.
I still discovered a lot of things, including that I could make backups and that it would be wise to do so ^^

As I said @Ron61, I'm going to do some tests this weekend to get off to a good start and get back to you.

Thank you all for the time you have or will give me

[Delta]

Thanks for your patience. Exchanges can get quite heated when people feel disrespected, and fallout9 is absolutely right that they were acting inappropriately. You do not resolve problems by being angry, so if you are a service technician trying to resolve a problem, you should de-escalate, rather than provoke more anger by venting your frustrations at the customer. I feel like even saying the same thing with a somewhat nicer choice of words could have avoided a lot of distractions there.

I have an idea about how to do the "single button" thing, but the "complete blocking", as you described it, has me more concerned. Any information on how exactly that expressed itself would be very welcome. I can see why mapping all three buttons to the same logical output would cause unexpected results, but I cannot imagine how it would prevent you from using your combination completely. What did you have to do to reset it to default? Was the default button available or did you have to take special steps? How did the "blocking" manifest itself?

I do not believe the messages in the report have anything to do with it. As I said I blame those on missing functionality in the device report tool - the VC button split feels like a rather tacked-on afterthought the way it behaves as a special treatment of certain button counts (32 and 64), and I think it is probable that Alex just forgot to update that tool to recognize the virtual controller buttons as part of the HID button list in that tool. You need not worry about that message.