Double-charging for VAT

[kindred.brujah]

I purchased an NXT Evo premium stick at the 'with EU VAT' price of €182.64. When shipped to me via UPS, UPS are attempting to charge me a further £46 for 'Government charges' as well as a brokerage fee. I am pretty confident this is VAT and I should therefore not be paying this. I either pay the company VAT or I pay the courier VAT, not both.

I opened a ticket about this two weeks ago as I refused delivery on this basis and have had radio silence ever since. UPS have emailed me every weekday since to tell me the parcel is in clearance.

Do I have any recourse here? If VKB won't respond to my ticket, I don't really see what I can do besides raise a challenge on the payment and get my bank to fight VKB for the money instead.

I don't really want to do that though, I just want my flight stick that I paid for already without getting ripped off.

[fallout9]

Post ticket number please, so we could inform the EU rep.

[kindred.brujah]

Hi fallout9, thanks for getting back to me.

I kept digging whilst waiting for this forum post to be authorised and figured out what was happening with the VAT. The website is very confusing with how the pricing is displayed.

[kindred.brujah]

Incidentally, for the benefit of anyone who comes after who has the same confusion, the issue is as follows:

If you are logged into your account and set to the UK (or possibly other non-EU countries) the price shown does not include any VAT. The wording 'incl VAT for EU only' is remarkably misleading as it suggests the price you're seeing includes VAT. It does not. You can check this by logging out of your account and checking the prices and you'll see it goes up by around €35.

Presently when I'm logged in the price of the stick I purchased is €182.64. If I log out, it goes up to €221.

Given the price can change depending on where you're based, I don't really understand why they can't change the wording of the line after it to say something like "excluding VAT on non-EU purchases - these taxes may be payable to the courier during shipping."

[Eduard VKB FSC]

Hi kindred.brujah,

We are considering different variants but unfortunately long explanation next to the price tag is not an option. The banner is enabled which should help to avoid such misunderstanding.

Thanks for the feedback.

[Grumble]

Hi KB,

Your experience of ordering from the website is different from mine, so I don't know if something has gone wrong or if this should be brought to the attention of VKB as something that could be resolved?

I am also in the UK, and every time I have purchased anything from the VKBSim Europe site (3 or 4 purchases over the last 18 months), the price of the object in the 'Shop' is displayed including EU VAT. However, as soon as I entered my UK address the EU VAT was removed when the shipping cost was calculated and added, and therefore each time I could see I was paying the lower price, net of VAT.

As soon as the shipments arrived in the UK and were sorted for delivery, I got emails and texts from UPS demanding the payment of VAT and import charges to them. Once these were paid, I got delivery without any further issues and am confident I only paid VAT once on each order.

I hope this gets resolved for you soon, so you don't miss out on your purchase.

[BetterDays]

How much should I be paying to UPS on my Gladiator Evo that cost £175.59 inc shipping? I make it £35.12 for the UK VAT @ 20%

[Grumble]

Hi BD,

They charged me VAT but also 'import duties' and 'government taxes' (plural) on my Gladiator purchase. I can't find the original mail from UPS, but it was about £69 all-in as I recall.

When I bought the FSM-GA module and also the EVO gimbal upgrade kit, neither of those got VAT or any other charges applied. Don't know if it applies to the size or weight of the package or if UPS didn't feel they were applicable, but you might get lucky.

[BetterDays]

Sounds dodgy to me. There isn't an import duty that I'm aware of. If some can share a government link to show there are import duties I would be happy to revise my position. VAT is a thing that can be charged and technically should be, although I'm not going to argue if they don't charge it.

Grumble, how was the charges presented to you? Did UPS inform you in advance that taxes and duties (more taxes) were owed or did they just spring it on you at the doorstep?

The is the HMRC website for guidance on import duty and there does not appear to be any import duties on computer peripherals from China
https://www.chambercustoms.co.uk/ukimporttaxcalculator

Here it appears the may be Customs duty of 2.5% due to the value being between £135 and £630
https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty

So anything over 20% VAT and 2.5% Customs duty can only be UPS mark-up. Well, I paid 15.70 Euro on the order for delivery so don't believe its reasonable for a second delivery charge. Furthermore, Eduard said that UPS collect the VAT, no other payments have been referred to by anyone whose services I've engaged or whose good I've bought. I'll pay the VAT and the Customs Duty if asked but that wouldn't exceed £38 so any more and its a no from me.

[Grumble]

I can't track down the message from UPS any longer, they only keep them for 4 months unfortunately. However, I checked on the gov taxes and customs website as well, and it confirms that VAT at 20% and customs duty of approx. 2.5% should be due and payable.
The customs duty is payable on the price paid for the goods plus postage, packing and insurance. The VAT is payable on the price paid for the goods plus postage, packing and insurance, and also on the customs duty. Note that the items are dispatched from Utrecht in the Netherlands, not China.

I don't think UPS gave me an exact breakdown, it was just an email that said: 'total charges due are £xx.xx' and informing me that I had to pay the charges otherwise they wouldn't be delivering the goods. Since I had already paid VKB the (VAT free) price of the joystick, I paid UPS the charges right away, as otherwise I could foresee a world of problems getting refunds, being charged for items to be sent back, etc. etc.

I can't recall the exact cost, but I'm sure it was £60-70, something of that order. I was slightly surprised and annoyed, but I'm sure if queried they would have produced the required calculation, although at potential risk of a delay in delivery. I honestly would be surprised if a company as big as UPS were ripping off individual flight simmers for a few extra undocumented pounds.

[BetterDays]

Its not necessarily the company thats ripping us off. People do the sums wrong sometimes and people have their side hustles. Mine is due to Tuesday so lets see how it goes. I'll report back here, hopefully with good news of a smooth and fair transaction

[BetterDays]

OK, for the interests of fairness I thought I should provide an update here. I have received an itemised bill from UPS. £35.01 'Government Charges' This fits with the anticipated VAT and Customs charge. A further £11.50 'brokerage fee'. So I expect the brokerage fee is their admin charge for dealing with the 'government charges'. I have paid it as the fees are within the ballpark of what I expected and while I think the brokerage fee is excessive I expect its set by some sort of regulation.

So for anyone concerned by the info in this thread, I don't know if anyone is following. You pay the relevant taxes plus a brokerage fee. The taxes are a percentage of the value of the order and I think the brokerage fee is a set fee so it might make sense to make higher value orders so the brokerage is a smaller percentage of the costs.

I am looking forward my delivery tomorrow.

[Eduard VKB FSC]

Hello BetterDays,

Thanks for sharing your experience. As far as I know the brokerage fee is fixed and not relevant how much is the order cost. The other part is VAT and it should be just 20% from the total amount paid for the order to us. We do not charge any VAT for any orders shipped outside of EU (e.g. to Norway, Lichtenstein, Switzerland, the UK excl Northen Ireland, etc)

[Grumble]

Hello Better Days,

Glad to hear you got clarification, and I hope you're pleased with the EVO.