Anyway to replace GF mk1 with mk2

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Andy
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Anyway to replace GF mk1 with mk2

Postby Andy » Thu Mar 22, 2018 11:57

Really sick of waiting for the mcg. Seems now early GF adopters in eu will have another wait. Come on vkb sort this out

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Re: Anyway to replace GF mk1 with mk2

Postby orlaag » Thu Mar 22, 2018 21:24

similar sentiment here, I'd even be up for a converter kit that required soldering on my part if it means I wait less and the connector type is finally standardised now (so will be future proof). Slight sour taste that such a big change that affects longevity and resale etc was made in same product line so early on meaning new product became none futureproof. To the point I've considered selling while there is supply problem and moving to the new connector type myself. In fairness I get it happens with small companies and in this case one who stands by their products and supports older models so not too bad, just be nice not to have specialist requirement in such a new product and some future proofing.

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Eduard VKB FSC
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Re: Anyway to replace GF mk1 with mk2

Postby Eduard VKB FSC » Fri Mar 23, 2018 6:31

Guys, I understand your feeling. We will try our best to get MCG for GF Mk.I owners in EU as soon as possible. I hope to get them in May but to be on the safe side I would count on June. Having KG12 and MCG of your choice you would be covered for quite some time. So, if I were you, I wouldn't try to replace Mk.I for Mk.II.

There is a positive aspect in delays. Yes, VKB is a small company but agile. We produce in small batches but immediately implement any improvement in the assembly technics, materials, components etc to improve the new product. So, getting the product from the second or the third batch could be beneficial (usually, it is)
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Re: Anyway to replace GF mk1 with mk2

Postby Andy » Fri Mar 23, 2018 13:14

.... and in June will you tell us the same, sorry guys it going to be October...

You were really helpful with my original order, but this is just making me feel like "to all mk a owners, screw you, we got your money"

The fact that vkb have changed the spec makes me sceptical about the quality of the grip connector. A couple of times the connector has lost contact with the grip causing problems with trim and ptt functions.

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Eduard VKB FSC
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Re: Anyway to replace GF mk1 with mk2

Postby Eduard VKB FSC » Fri Mar 23, 2018 15:35

Andy wrote:.... and in June will you tell us the same, sorry guys it going to be October...

You were really helpful with my original order, but this is just making me feel like "to all mk a owners, screw you, we got your money"


Hello Andy, when the product is in stock, it is easier to be helpful than, of course, for a new product which is complicated and innovative providing a whole set of new features and requires a lot of efforts for logistics, manufacturing, design and it is difficult to plan all things right for such new products.

Andy wrote:The fact that vkb have changed the spec makes me sceptical about the quality of the grip connector. A couple of times the connector has lost contact with the grip causing problems with trim and ptt functions.

The grip connector type is not changed. The connectors positions were swapped to be more failed-proof, that's it. It is strange that your connector lost contact for particular functions like trim and ppt because it is providing connectivity for signalling bus. If connection is lost, it should affect whole functionality, not only trim and ptt.
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Re: Anyway to replace GF mk1 with mk2

Postby orlaag » Fri Mar 23, 2018 16:32

Mine has never lost contact and I've always found the quality excellent. I don't mean it as throwing shade, just points to be brought up that are worth considering. The reason I am considering the swap is not because I don't think VKB will cater to that model (proven track record of doing the opposite, even the old 5pin). My reason is more off the shelf support and modularity IF this is the final connector revision, eg. I get a second GF base and wanted kosmosima I'd need ot buy 2 types, even now my KG12 wouldn't work on this batch of bases so I'd need to buy another so can see what I'm thinking and I wonder if it was considered (possible angle not thought about as it is consumer concern many may not think of). Modularity is a big selling point and advertised as such and sometimes it is worth pointing out (even if it is just to provide conversion kit in future).

FWIW I don't mean any of this as a bitch or consider jumping ship to another brand, just different model at most if I do that. I get it is a small company and the commitment to quality at the forefront means I'll likely always stay VKB customer just some frustration is understandable especially with the lack of updates we get in Europe. On that note I get you're just one guy and lord knows what else you have on, I presume your job role is not exclusively community manager alone unlike the bigger companies that have folks working solely as that thus they have the leisure to reply much more frequent; just when the USA site gets a lot more love than us it can seem frustrating (yet understandable like I say).

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Re: Anyway to replace GF mk1 with mk2

Postby Andy » Fri Mar 23, 2018 17:06

Rev a must be inferior else it would have not required improvements

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Re: Anyway to replace GF mk1 with mk2

Postby orlaag » Fri Mar 23, 2018 17:22

Not necessarily inferior from a customer PoV. It could well be a production line thing where it is inferior in the manufacturing stage. For customers it is the same connector but reversed so it makes no difference. If the stick is seated right and you've tightened the bolts properly there will be no loss of connection. In the case of heavy oxide layers after time in some environments it may have some contact issues as ANY electronics do (I find battery contacts in devices and connectors around high ozone conc etc do, in other workds not my joystick) in which case you'll likely have some Deoxit red or black, give it a squirt and perhaps some gold shield to stop it happening as quick.

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Re: Anyway to replace GF mk1 with mk2

Postby orlaag » Fri Mar 23, 2018 19:13

Eduard VKB FSC wrote:There is a positive aspect in delays. Yes, VKB is a small company but agile. We produce in small batches but immediately implement any improvement in the assembly technics, materials, components etc to improve the new product. So, getting the product from the second or the third batch could be beneficial (usually, it is)

Be careful with that line of reasoning as I know a lot of folks who'd read that and run. I get delays happen sure, but trying to make it sound like it is beneficial (to consumer) is like the "hey it's a feature not a bug" that has had so many software companies panned. If there is design revisions mid batch that benefits CONSUMERS rather than tooling process etc it means you admit sold consumers a lesser product; and when you've made implementation in the same line in the second batch it means they could come any time so why should I trust your brand ever? I don't feel that way and get you probably didn't intend to read that way but it isn't a consumer positive stance thus be careful on that wording. I'm open to correction on that and of course it may just be the way it reads to me but I've seen comments like that turn into s***storm on a lot of occasions, plus it can seem insulting to suggest delays are beneficial to consumers rather than just "hey s**t happens but we didn't make promises".

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Re: Anyway to replace GF mk1 with mk2

Postby Andy » Fri Mar 23, 2018 20:28

I use this product a lot. I sim fly far too much, so I bought good kit to do this. I think VKB Gun Fighter stick is amazing. I love the stick. I am prepared to keep tightening everything up inside, and keep it tidy, because it is a good stick.

I waited for it putting up with a x52 that had been re-soldered countless times as to not have to buy another flight stick while waiting for this. I did the 2 years waiting already. Then I waited for a further 9 months for the grip, to be told, whoa because we only getting REVB, you have to wait a further 3 months, but 3 months can be any specified period of time with the nature of you small niche business.

My issue is with the fact that this modular stick that I bought has already been superseded. I assume that version A GF bases will no longer be made, just grips etc, and I also assume that the number of GF rev A bases made was low due to the niche nature. SO I can also assume that any subsequent releases of new grips, lets not forget that their is a DCS f14 coming and a VKB F14 grip coming... where is that going to leave rev A users? I still use my X52 throttle, so I am in the market for a throttle. Again I am waiting patiently for you to produce this, now I think I do want this, but do I want this on day1? Hmmm maybe I will wait, maybe a whole bunch of people take this opinion, and no one buys day 1.

So this is why I ask for upgrade to rev B. Or at the very least provide us with a converter. I'll pay the money for a converter, money isn't the issue, else I would not have shelled out the £420. Just allow us to all be at the same speed please.

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Re: Anyway to replace GF mk1 with mk2

Postby Andy » Fri Mar 23, 2018 20:41

I'd buy a pro extension with rev a at the bottom and rev b at the top if you made one.

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Re: Anyway to replace GF mk1 with mk2

Postby Seb71 » Mon Mar 26, 2018 14:30

That would be a very good option to have. And should not be too difficult to make.

If this kind of "converter extension" will be made, it should be made with a few various lengths, including one with the shortest possible length.

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Re: Anyway to replace GF mk1 with mk2

Postby Eduard VKB FSC » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:27

orlaag wrote:Be careful with that line of reasoning as I know a lot of folks who'd read that and run. I get delays happen sure, but trying to make it sound like it is beneficial (to consumer) is like the "hey it's a feature not a bug" that has had so many software companies panned. If there is design revisions mid batch that benefits CONSUMERS rather than tooling process etc it means you admit sold consumers a lesser product; and when you've made implementation in the same line in the second batch it means they could come any time so why should I trust your brand ever? I don't feel that way and get you probably didn't intend to read that way but it isn't a consumer positive stance thus be careful on that wording. I'm open to correction on that and of course it may just be the way it reads to me but I've seen comments like that turn into s***storm on a lot of occasions, plus it can seem insulting to suggest delays are beneficial to consumers rather than just "hey s**t happens but we didn't make promises".


Hello Orlaag,
Thanks for your comments. Please, don't get me wrong. I am not trying to advertise the delay as a feature but just offer to look at it from the other angle. Actually, the reason why the connector is reversed because some minimal per cent of our clients managed to damage connector in Mk.I. It has never been revealed during testing because testers mount the grip like 90% of other users, carefully. But 10% managed to break it and it was not obvious during our testing.

Mk.II and Mk.I are the same for those 90% of people who mount it nicely. And it is not a quality improvement (could be arguable, though) but just a way to avoid those 10% or even 1% which will not break the connector and will stay happy customers. When the connector is broken, it is quite painful for our customer support as well.

Andy wrote: I assume that version A GF bases will no longer be made, just grips etc, and I also assume that the number of GF rev A bases made was low due to the niche nature. SO I can also assume that any subsequent releases of new grips, lets not forget that their is a DCS f14 coming and a VKB F14 grip coming... where is that going to leave rev A users? I still use my X52 throttle, so I am in the market for a throttle. Again I am waiting patiently for you to produce this, now I think I do want this, but do I want this on day1? Hmmm maybe I will wait, maybe a whole bunch of people take this opinion, and no one buys day 1.

So this is why I ask for upgrade to rev B. Or at the very least provide us with a converter. I'll pay the money for a converter, money isn't the issue, else I would not have shelled out the £420. Just allow us to all be at the same speed please.

Hello Andy,
Let me discuss it internally. However, I do not see a reason to not produce rev.A version of the new grips. Rev A and B grips use the same components, they are electrically fully compatible.
Last edited by Eduard VKB FSC on Tue Mar 27, 2018 15:07, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: typo
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Re: Anyway to replace GF mk1 with mk2

Postby Eduard VKB FSC » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:29

Andy wrote:I'd buy a pro extension with rev a at the bottom and rev b at the top if you made one.

That's indeed a good option from my opinion.
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Re: Anyway to replace GF mk1 with mk2

Postby aniron » Thu Apr 26, 2018 17:48

I already have a rev A pro extension.
I'd prefer to only buy the parts needed to convert this, or a small rigid adapter in a similar form factor as the twist adapter.


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