Gunfighter MCG is on the way to EU

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Eduard VKB FSC
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Re: Gunfighter MCG is on the way to EU

Postby Eduard VKB FSC » Fri Mar 23, 2018 16:05

hon0 wrote:Hi, is this the metal version of the KG12? Or not yet?

No, there is no metal version of the KG12 grip yet. I currently can't estimate when would it be available.
Andy wrote:Thank you for the information. I am really disappointed in this. Can I send this joystick back to you. To be honest it's useless for modern sims. I can't wait any longer for this mcg. Now June? This is unacceptable. I have to keep putting the tensioner assembly back together. While the gimbal is excellent, my faith in vkb coupled with the lack of ready information I have lost faith in your company.
Every time when totally new product is out, there are complaints. I understand that it is about expectations. In your case, I believe when you bought GF Mk.I with KG12, you expected very soon have a new advanced grip (though, I didn't promise that) but it tooks much more time than originally was planned.

Please, understand that it is not 3D-printer-made almost-DYI product but it is done according to high industrial standards and every step there is important such as designing and tuning steel molds, getting right components etc. Industrial grade components are not freely sold on open market... I am not even talking about firmware of multiple controllers in the grip which could not be provisioned OTA just like for a smartphone. It is quite temptive to start getting pre-orders earlier and start shipping sooner but fixing any flaws when the grip is already in the possession of a customer is way more complex and not even possible in some cases. So, the grip quality should be as good as possible before making it in bulk and ship it to EU.

The gimbal took several iterations before it became such a nice product and we started produce it in decent numbers. MCG/KG12 and Gunfighter are to be in permanent stock this year, just like T-Rudder Mk.IV pedals we had.
VKB store in Europe - http://flightsimcontrols.com

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Re: Gunfighter MCG is on the way to EU

Postby graysson » Fri Mar 23, 2018 17:24

Most of us are pissed that we dont have to wait months now but years. Considering how much a stick costs and that VKB is rather on the small side of a company most people understand some delays but not years.

I bought my two Gunfighters last July and at least expected to get a MCG grip the same year but nothing happened. Then the new revisions of the sticks were announced. Now my Gunfighters are more or less worthless unless i throw good money after bad money. Which i was prepared to do but then we got delays after delays and the information that eurpoean customers will be last with everything and the ones stuck with a rev. A base will get their grip even later. Now im looking at probably a one and half year (considering your track record) waiting time to get a decent righthand stick. And then i dont even have a lefthand stick or at least some concrete information about it. And to make it worse i cant even sell the Gunfighters because nobody would buy them with all these problems or i would have to sell them for such a low price that i lose hundreds of dollar for practically unused sticks.

I hope this makes it a bit clearer how all the delays and changes like the revisions look from the other side (mostly my side but i think im not completely alone with that). And it really dont help that the customers that supported you early have to wait months longer to get the rest of the hardware to make their stick a complete one.

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Re: Gunfighter MCG is on the way to EU

Postby Slims » Fri Mar 23, 2018 20:37

Thanks a lot Eduard ! I`m waiting anxiously for the pre-order :)

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Re: Gunfighter MCG is on the way to EU

Postby Daniel » Fri Mar 23, 2018 21:35

I don't want to sound rude but this is totally unacceptable, again the early adopters get shafted.
Eduard i understand you are trying to explain why the people that bought a gunfighter Mk1 need to wait untill June and with past track record it will probably end up being August but your explanation makes no sense.
How can it be that you can ship complete gunfighter MK2 with the MCG attached and not the separate MCG for the MK1?

I have alwasy been really positive about this brand and i can understand that products get improved but letting you early adopters hang like this together with the extremely bad communication makes me think if i should regret buying VKB gear.
I am really hoping VKB throw us a bone because i am really disapointed by all this, its not like a $50 toy we bought.

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Re: Gunfighter MCG is on the way to EU

Postby skepsism » Fri Mar 23, 2018 22:24

I might get a MCG in the future if the EU situation is sorted. I feel with the people who've been waiting for a year for the grip to make it's way over the Atlantic - even though I just got into flight simming. I just can't understand why VKB just don't ship worldwide from US store to have this whole mess under control.

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Re: Gunfighter MCG is on the way to EU

Postby BillClement » Fri Mar 23, 2018 22:42

Thanks for the post, Eduard. I appreciate the update. Now, to quote myself from another thread: will the "VKB-Sim Gunfighter Pro Mk.II ‘Modern Combat Edition’ w/ MCG PRO Grip (3-pin Rev.B)" be available on the EU site when stock arrives?

For clarification, I'm looking to buy the MCG PRO grip, the curved 8in extension and the small Gunfighter Mk II base to fit my simpit. Just the grip and a standard base won't be any use to me.

Will we be able to buy the small base, s-stick and MGC PRO grip when stock arrives, or will there be a further delay until all the pieces are available?

Aer
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Re: Gunfighter MCG is on the way to EU

Postby Aer » Mon Mar 26, 2018 1:15

Still waiting this version (Gladiator Pro MkII + MCG/Pro combo) will be available in may 2018 in North America:

https://vkbcontrollers.com/?product=vkb ... w-mcg-grip

Or this one:
https://vkbcontrollers.com/?product=vkb ... -w-mcg-pro

Please Eduard, can you confirm this product wil be available in EU store and if yes, can you provide us the expected date/period of availability?

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Eduard VKB FSC
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Re: Gunfighter MCG is on the way to EU

Postby Eduard VKB FSC » Tue Mar 27, 2018 8:58

Aer wrote:Still waiting this version (Gladiator Pro MkII + MCG/Pro combo) will be available in may 2018 in North America:

https://vkbcontrollers.com/?product=vkb ... w-mcg-grip

Or this one:
https://vkbcontrollers.com/?product=vkb ... -w-mcg-pro

Please Eduard, can you confirm this product wil be available in EU store and if yes, can you provide us the expected date/period of availability?

Hello Aer,
Unfortunately, I cannot confirm that at the moment. I hope to clarify that next week. However, please, understand that May is very rough estimation. It all depends on readiness of software, availability of components etc. And I expect MCG for GF Mk.I EU users to be produced with a priority.

BillClement wrote:Thanks for the post, Eduard. I appreciate the update. Now, to quote myself from another thread: will the "VKB-Sim Gunfighter Pro Mk.II ‘Modern Combat Edition’ w/ MCG PRO Grip (3-pin Rev.B)" be available on the EU site when stock arrives?

For clarification, I'm looking to buy the MCG PRO grip, the curved 8in extension and the small Gunfighter Mk II base to fit my simpit. Just the grip and a standard base won't be any use to me.

Will we be able to buy the small base, s-stick and MGC PRO grip when stock arrives, or will there be a further delay until all the pieces are available?

Hello BillClement,

Yes, sure, GF Pro + MGC Pro with s-stick and small base will be in stock.

graysson wrote:Most of us are pissed that we dont have to wait months now but years. Considering how much a stick costs and that VKB is rather on the small side of a company most people understand some delays but not years.

I bought my two Gunfighters last July and at least expected to get a MCG grip the same year but nothing happened. Then the new revisions of the sticks were announced. Now my Gunfighters are more or less worthless unless i throw good money after bad money. Which i was prepared to do but then we got delays after delays and the information that eurpoean customers will be last with everything and the ones stuck with a rev. A base will get their grip even later. Now im looking at probably a one and half year (considering your track record) waiting time to get a decent righthand stick. And then i dont even have a lefthand stick or at least some concrete information about it. And to make it worse i cant even sell the Gunfighters because nobody would buy them with all these problems or i would have to sell them for such a low price that i lose hundreds of dollar for practically unused sticks.

I hope this makes it a bit clearer how all the delays and changes like the revisions look from the other side (mostly my side but i think im not completely alone with that). And it really dont help that the customers that supported you early have to wait months longer to get the rest of the hardware to make their stick a complete one.


Hello graysson,

First of all, thank you for your support !

Please, do not believe that your Gladiator Mk.I is now useless. I understood that indexing every modified version with as Mk.{X} could mislead and you may think that Mk.II is improved version of Mk.I. Not in this case, at least.
Basically, the difference is in reversed position of the connector. The connector is still as good as the one used in Mk.I. So, in case of Mk.II (or rev.B) is only that reversed connector is more durable against excessive force some users try to apply when they mount a grip. Electrically both Mk.I and Mk.II are fully compatible. I am sure that your Mk.I is a long-term investment and you would only need MCG to have it complete.

With regards of delays, I usually very careful when promising any dates when people asking me via email. I understand that everyone wants all new products to hit the market as soon as possible. We also want that. But, more innovative products are introduced, more challenges we are facing including e.g. such unexpected as logistics. Industrial grade components are not available on the market immediately. They need to be ordered beforehand and lead time could be significant. And it is just one example of challenges. Therefore, in October last year I announced March'18 as ETA for MCG in EU and even this date was moved one month further. I agree that we should manage expectation better.
VKB store in Europe - http://flightsimcontrols.com

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Re: Gunfighter MCG is on the way to EU

Postby Eduard VKB FSC » Tue Mar 27, 2018 9:10

skepsism wrote:I might get a MCG in the future if the EU situation is sorted. I feel with the people who've been waiting for a year for the grip to make it's way over the Atlantic - even though I just got into flight simming. I just can't understand why VKB just don't ship worldwide from US store to have this whole mess under control.


Hello skepsism,
A year ago we didn't have even a concept printed. MCG was still in 3D model. The first pre-production grips VKB produced in December and only in January the production is started. Then February was Chinese New Year break where all factories and all business in China is on hold. In March the production run for EU was completed and the cargo was shipped.

There is no stock in US store. All items are shipped from the factory individually and directly to the client's address. That's a difference with EU. For EU market we have to get bulk shipment, get through the custom office and pay all EU taxes first, and only then we could start shipping. That's why it takes extra month for all that logistical activity. US does not apply any taxes for shipment from China (so far). So, it makes logistics much easier (and cheaper)
VKB store in Europe - http://flightsimcontrols.com

Im_order@arcor.de
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Re: Gunfighter MCG is on the way to EU

Postby Im_order@arcor.de » Tue Mar 27, 2018 23:32

Hadarmil wrote:What about the Gladiator Pro mk.2?

I need to verify when the firmware is available. Gladiator Pro/non-Pro requires special firmware, designed for Gladiator. That could be a showstopper for now.


So what does showstopper mean? will there be a firmware soon? Will there be a firmware at all? When?
i wonder if i schould buy the Gunfighter Versin now and wait for the firmware because my fear is that there will never be a gladiator MCG land in Europe! And the firmware i could flash myself, later when its ready, right?

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Re: Gunfighter MCG is on the way to EU

Postby graysson » Wed Mar 28, 2018 14:55

Eduard VKB FSC wrote:
graysson wrote:Most of us are pissed that we dont have to wait months now but years. Considering how much a stick costs and that VKB is rather on the small side of a company most people understand some delays but not years.

I bought my two Gunfighters last July and at least expected to get a MCG grip the same year but nothing happened. Then the new revisions of the sticks were announced. Now my Gunfighters are more or less worthless unless i throw good money after bad money. Which i was prepared to do but then we got delays after delays and the information that eurpoean customers will be last with everything and the ones stuck with a rev. A base will get their grip even later. Now im looking at probably a one and half year (considering your track record) waiting time to get a decent righthand stick. And then i dont even have a lefthand stick or at least some concrete information about it. And to make it worse i cant even sell the Gunfighters because nobody would buy them with all these problems or i would have to sell them for such a low price that i lose hundreds of dollar for practically unused sticks.

I hope this makes it a bit clearer how all the delays and changes like the revisions look from the other side (mostly my side but i think im not completely alone with that). And it really dont help that the customers that supported you early have to wait months longer to get the rest of the hardware to make their stick a complete one.


Hello graysson,

First of all, thank you for your support !

Please, do not believe that your Gladiator Mk.I is now useless. I understood that indexing every modified version with as Mk.{X} could mislead and you may think that Mk.II is improved version of Mk.I. Not in this case, at least.
Basically, the difference is in reversed position of the connector. The connector is still as good as the one used in Mk.I. So, in case of Mk.II (or rev.B) is only that reversed connector is more durable against excessive force some users try to apply when they mount a grip. Electrically both Mk.I and Mk.II are fully compatible. I am sure that your Mk.I is a long-term investment and you would only need MCG to have it complete.

With regards of delays, I usually very careful when promising any dates when people asking me via email. I understand that everyone wants all new products to hit the market as soon as possible. We also want that. But, more innovative products are introduced, more challenges we are facing including e.g. such unexpected as logistics. Industrial grade components are not available on the market immediately. They need to be ordered beforehand and lead time could be significant. And it is just one example of challenges. Therefore, in October last year I announced March'18 as ETA for MCG in EU and even this date was moved one month further. I agree that we should manage expectation better.


Are you sure you answered the right post? The quote does not match the answer.
I have Gunfighters (not a Gladiator) and i fully understand the connector stuff.
But you created a fragmentation of grips and sticks that prevents inchangebility of grips and stick when having more than one stick or when trying to sell a rev. A stick.
And thats a downside for your customers no matter what you say.
You can say "you just hold it the wrong way" like Apple but that doesnt change anything except giving you a bad rep.

And yes my Gunfighter is useless for playing space sims because the KG12 doesnt have enough buttons.
I could have accepted some time to bring out the MCG and even some delays...but over a year?
The main grip i have with the delays are the additional delays you give customers who already paid A LOT (over 900€ in my case) by selling solo grips later AND serving european customers last.
Its inacceptable to wait probably another 6 months because of that.

Thats why i ordered a VPC stick (which was in stock and got already shipped to me after only a few weeks).
They will probably even get out the twist stick before i can order a MCG Pro.
Since im already tired of waiting for the MCG Pro i will not wait another year for a VKB lefthand stick with twist.
At that rate Star Citizen will probably have their release before i can get a full VKB space sim setup.

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Re: Gunfighter MCG is on the way to EU

Postby Ships » Thu Mar 29, 2018 16:35

Hello I have a simple question.
In reading your discussion i have a doubt.
Does the gunfighter MCG have a twist? I tought there is no twist in this because it's a replica and it doen't exist in real one.
Thanks in advance for your answer.

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Re: Gunfighter MCG is on the way to EU

Postby navvar » Thu Mar 29, 2018 17:04

There will be a separately sold twist adapter, it goes between the grip and the base.
Here's a comparison of the MCG grip on a Gunfighter base with and without the twist adapter:
Image

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Re: Gunfighter MCG is on the way to EU

Postby Ships » Fri Mar 30, 2018 7:41

Wow! great answer thank you very much 8)

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Re: Gunfighter MCG is on the way to EU

Postby Ishtaru » Sun Apr 01, 2018 18:38

I really hope my patience pay off in the end. I Wait since forever to buy a new stick to replace my warthog. The VKB is great on paper and i love the fact that there are 2 ministicks and a replaceable thumb 4way hat+button with just a button. Nice for helicopter trim. So i patiently wait and hope everything will be fine in the end.


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