Gunfighter MCG is on the way to EU

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RN_Max
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Re: Gunfighter MCG is on the way to EU

Postby RN_Max » Sat May 19, 2018 22:57

After missing the initial rush for GF2/MCG combos, it has paid off keeping an eye on the Gunfighter stock ...

for whatever reason, the GF2 Tabletop with MCG RU appeared back in stock a while ago, then when I checked today so did the GF2 with MCG EN. Not needing more than one hint I placed an order.

Next, the twist adaptor ... then maybe an MCG Pro later if/when they are available separately.

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Re: Gunfighter MCG is on the way to EU

Postby Tobu » Wed May 23, 2018 11:59

Eduard VKB FSC wrote:
Fri13 wrote:Are we talking months or years in the production runs? LIke expected to see 1-2 production runs 2018 or do we go to 2019?
Hi Fri13,
I expect two production runs in 2018


Can you please pass on how unacceptable this is from a customers point of view who have purchased the original Rev A. in June 2017 to still be waiting into the tail end of 2018 for a grip that was available in the US in December.

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Re: Gunfighter MCG is on the way to EU

Postby Eduard VKB FSC » Wed May 23, 2018 13:00

Tobu wrote:Can you please pass on how unacceptable this is from a customers point of view who have purchased the original Rev A. in June 2017 to still be waiting into the tail end of 2018 for a grip that was available in the US in December.
Hello Tobu, I understand your frustrations. Many people are unhappy that not all our products are in stock. But it is always a complex task to have the brand new product in permanent stock as initial demand always exceeds manufacturing capacity. Here in EU we managed to offer T-Rudder pedals almost without any interruption for couple of years. The same goal we will achieve for Gunfighter variants. Right now we have in stock GF2 MCG EN/RU and GF2 KG12 as well as T-Rudder pedals.

But we did not sell any standalone grips in EU yet. I expect to get them in the next batch and it should include both rev.A and rev.B grips. Unfortunately, we will have some lag in time comparing to US customers as we need to keep the transportation cost low to offer the best price and that's why it must be shipped via ocean. But we are not talking about "the tail end of 2018" but about August/September. All expected products will be available for pre-ordering for your convenience and first product to offer will be rev.A grips.
VKB store in Europe - http://flightsimcontrols.com

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Re: Gunfighter MCG is on the way to EU

Postby orlaag » Wed May 23, 2018 17:42

No offence but this is goal post moving. I originally mentioned I was considering USA order only to be told with confidence to wait for Jan '18 so I did, then that gets delayed but hey these thigns happen. Wish I'd ordered parts or whole stick via USA now and sadly my confidence in EU store is not perfect. Then eventually the container arrives and doesn't even contain what we were told it would. No sorry or anything, from an individual defensiveness is fine and understandable but from a company it looks bad. I have shipped a lot in from Asia to UK, been involved in some large volume shipping too and it isn't that hard in the EU, especially not Holland. Even considering keeping price down doesn't answer what was missing and fact "enough for all" wasn't the case despite polls etc knowing what the demand was.

I'm not having a go here but admitting a mistake goes a long way with companies. I've had to do the same myself at times and admit mistakes that were not my fault but by someone I represented and customers appreciate it more otherwise it gets hard to take you on your word. I already have a sour taste over the EU experience although much of that is probably far beyond your control as sole rep it is on you to communicate it and in fairness you often didn't. Can you confirm the rev A products will be in this Aug/Sep batch? If not then that is fine as like I say miscommunications happen and maybe you didn't know the size of previous shipment nor the lack of grips until opening.

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Re: Gunfighter MCG is on the way to EU

Postby graysson » Thu May 24, 2018 0:08

Couldnt have said it better myself.

@Eduard: I was one of these customers who bought Gunfighters (even two of them in my case) in 2017 and waited over year for the grips to complete them.
But nothing came except a new grip adaptor revision and a lot of uncertainty whether my stick will get all the upgrades promised on the time i bought it.
Yes i know you keep telling us that it will be the case but up until now we have seen nothing of it.

I finally gave up and sold my sticks. I lost 320€ of the original price because of the losses i had to take for selling a used stick. That more than a new stick.
I know i didnt have to sell them but in their current state they were unusable to me. But the other thing is that it would even more or less the same to sell a stick with a loss of 160€ and buy a rev. B Gunfighter with MCG Pro than to buy a standalone MCG Pro which would have upped the price to over 500€ for one stick.
And i would have been spared the connector revision drama...until the next change.

I think i spare all of us the rest of what i have to say about the topic.

best regards
an unsatisfied (now ex) customer

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Re: Gunfighter MCG is on the way to EU

Postby Eduard VKB FSC » Thu May 24, 2018 1:45

Hello orlaag. Thanks for the constructive post. I hope I could answer it in details.
orlaag wrote:No offence but this is goal post moving. I originally mentioned I was considering USA order only to be told with confidence to wait for Jan '18 so I did, then that gets delayed but hey these thigns happen. Wish I'd ordered parts or whole stick via USA now and sadly my confidence in EU store is not perfect. Then eventually the container arrives and doesn't even contain what we were told it would. No sorry or anything, from an individual defensiveness is fine and understandable but from a company it looks bad. I have shipped a lot in from Asia to UK, been involved in some large volume shipping too and it isn't that hard in the EU, especially not Holland. Even considering keeping price down doesn't answer what was missing and fact "enough for all" wasn't the case despite polls etc knowing what the demand was.
Hmm, I don't want to argue that rev.A story is not pleasant but just want to tell that Jan'18 was never promised for EU market.

Anyway, I agree with you that MCG start should be organized better. Me, and VKB in general, definitely learned from it.

Shipping indeed does not cause a shortage of items in cargo.

I explained earlier but it seems there is still unclarity on this. There is one source of all VKB products, it is our manufacturing facility in Shenzhen. All markets, but EU, get direct shipping from the factory warehouse. For EU customers, VKB has to produce it, form a cargo and ship it to our warehouse. It always makes time lag of 1-2 months compared to availability in US, Russian or Chinese markets. Indeed, the shipping itself is not a problem but it is difficult to produce new product in right quantity to meet the initial demand. Any delays caused by testing or any issues to fix, make the demand growing. For example, whole batch of MCG for EU has been enhanced with spring washers based on experience of early MCG customers. So, the whole MCG batch for EU was re-assembled and re-tested again. Having polls would not help as the cargo has been formed based on the availability and not on initial demand.

Another interesting fact is that from VKB experience polls does not match with actual sales and difference is high. Apparently, people who participates in polls cannot be directly mapped to the whole audience. However, it is irrelevant for the first EU batch due to shortage of some variants anyway.

Pre-ordering is much better and that's what I plan to implement in very near future.

orlaag wrote:I'm not having a go here but admitting a mistake goes a long way with companies. I've had to do the same myself at times and admit mistakes that were not my fault but by someone I represented and customers appreciate it more otherwise it gets hard to take you on your word. I already have a sour taste over the EU experience although much of that is probably far beyond your control as sole rep it is on you to communicate it and in fairness you often didn't.


I agree that it was lack of communication from my side. It should be communicated more often. But I have never lie or provided any easy promises. You can see on the website news or on this forum. No news or messages were deleted or changed. In October I announced availability MCG in February, before Chinese New Year. Unfortunately, it has been shipped in March, after Chinese New Year. I never promised anyone that MCG will be available in January. But already in November, I mentioned March. The exact date is very difficult to predict as it depends on manufacturing and new products are always come with delays, especially, the product like MCG which contains three microcontrollers only in a grip.

Ask me about availability of T-Rudder pedals : ) That's I could answer much better. Anyway, I learned from it to not communicate any dates for new products.

orlaag wrote:Can you confirm the rev A products will be in this Aug/Sep batch?
Rev.A grips as well as rev.B grips are planned for the next batch. Rev.A grips have a priority and they will be produced on base on pre-ordering. The pre-ordering will be opened as soon as I have green light from manufacturing. I do expect it in Aug/Sep but still need to get concrete dates from manufacturing.
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Re: Gunfighter MCG is on the way to EU

Postby Eduard VKB FSC » Thu May 24, 2018 2:04

graysson wrote:I know i didnt have to sell them but in their current state they were unusable to me. But the other thing is that it would even more or less the same to sell a stick with a loss of 160€ and buy a rev. B Gunfighter with MCG Pro than to buy a standalone MCG Pro which would have upped the price to over 500€ for one stick.
And i would have been spared the connector revision drama...until the next change.

I am sorry to hear that...
I agree that connector change is not pleasant as well as delays with supplies.

With regards of price, yes, we managed to lower the price due to high volume low cost shipping and using more complicated payment gateways etc than last year. Also, euro/usd rate is very good at the moment which helped to make price lower. I understand that it does not help you to keep the value of GF sticks you bought a year ago but should it be a reason to keep prices higher ?
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Re: Gunfighter MCG is on the way to EU

Postby orlaag » Thu May 24, 2018 5:11

Thanks for the reply it is appreciated, genuinely so. Like I say not having a go at you and miscommunications or changes at all point of the chain will happen so I get you can't give concrete dates but as a company it seems EU market lags behind a lot, perhaps we are significantly smaller than Asia, NA and Russian markets so for small company it isn't as attractive or is newer compared to the other markets (idk on that) so teething problems exist. Fwiw product wise I haven't found anything else better at the price point (or even higher until you get into custom and higher end pro pit gear). I was surprised the 1st batch of MCGs sold so fast, I was considering getting a whole pro unit and swapping out mcg on my rev A later for friend/family but they'd sold so quick it makes just as much sense to wait. Advanced preorder would be ideal because of seeing the exact initial demand alone I suppose. On the pedal note, do you have any in? (joking as have some).

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Re: Gunfighter MCG is on the way to EU

Postby navvar » Thu May 24, 2018 22:56

My order got here earlier today, it took around 12 days total from when it was shipped out of the VKB warehouse until I had it in my hands. I'm sure it'd have been a lot faster if we didn't have a bunch of public holidays squeezed in close to the weekend here in Norway for the past few days.

The only minor thing to really note with the package was that the assembly-usermanual was for the KG12 and not the MCG that I ordered, I hear this is the case everywhere though so it could be that the mounting procedures for both grips are identical and that's the reason they didn't opt to not make a new manual (maybe one is in the works?) - everything is available online anyway so I'm not fretting about it. Other than that the packaging looked very professional, all the parts are separate inside the box so as to not cause damage to any of them.

I'm just glad I managed to snag the MCG/GF Pro in time, and I feel really bad for those who have waited such a long time and didn't get the chance to get theirs because it ran out of stock - who now have to wait even longer for a second (or third) batch.

@Eduard If you're able to get preordering on track for EU as you mentioned earlier, that would be awesome. Although, in the future, have you perhaps considered giving the customer the choice of shipping method? I can only speak for myself, but if you were open to allow us to choose to ship directly from Shenzen instead of having to wait the month or so for the shipment to arrive in Europe, I would consider that a plus in my book. I am aware that the cost of shipping would be considerably higher, but when you're in the market for a €400 single joystick - it's safe to assume that some, if not many of us can afford it and would prefer the option at least.

I know limited production runs is the main concern right now, so if the team is able to ramp up production without sacrificing on the quality, then I could foresee great things happening in the future for the company. There is definitely no shortage of pilots (customers) and most of the comments I have seen online about people going for other brands when VKB is mentioned in the same sentence, almost always comes down to the availability of your products.

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Re: Gunfighter MCG is on the way to EU

Postby neor » Thu May 24, 2018 23:47

Hi,

I'm also intrested in the Gunfighter Pro Mk2 (SKU: GF2PMP-E)!
But how long do I have to wait?

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Re: Gunfighter MCG is on the way to EU

Postby Eduard VKB FSC » Fri May 25, 2018 11:29

navvar wrote:@Eduard If you're able to get preordering on track for EU as you mentioned earlier, that would be awesome. Although, in the future, have you perhaps considered giving the customer the choice of shipping method? I can only speak for myself, but if you were open to allow us to choose to ship directly from Shenzen instead of having to wait the month or so for the shipment to arrive in Europe, I would consider that a plus in my book. I am aware that the cost of shipping would be considerably higher, but when you're in the market for a €400 single joystick - it's safe to assume that some, if not many of us can afford it and would prefer the option at least.
Hi navvar, I agree that it should be an option for "early birds" who wants to be the first owning the new hot product, who understand risks and ready to pay extra for fast shipping. We are discussing internally what would be the best way. Thank you for sharing your opinion on that.

navvar wrote:I know limited production runs is the main concern right now, so if the team is able to ramp up production without sacrificing on the quality, then I could foresee great things happening in the future for the company. There is definitely no shortage of pilots (customers) and most of the comments I have seen online about people going for other brands when VKB is mentioned in the same sentence, almost always comes down to the availability of your products.
The production is on-going and quite promising. Of course, it is always an issue to cover initial demand but the production capacity is not far behind the demand. This spring VKB manufacturing moved to the new building with much better facilities. It caused delays in production overall but since the move is complete, it is getting up to speed now. I wouldn't promise permanent stock for all Gunfighter variants this year but we should be close to that.
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Re: Gunfighter MCG is on the way to EU

Postby Eduard VKB FSC » Fri May 25, 2018 11:33

neor wrote:I'm also intrested in the Gunfighter Pro Mk2 (SKU: GF2PMP-E)!
But how long do I have to wait?
Hello neor, currently we plan to get the next shipment from the factory in August/September. I plan to open reservation for Gunfighter and MCG grips. When it is tested and opened, it will be announced on the website, on this forum and via newsletters.
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Re: Gunfighter MCG is on the way to EU

Postby neor » Fri May 25, 2018 12:47

This takes too much time. I have ordered the "normal" Version. Not ideal but better as nothing...
How much would it cost for upgrading to the Pro version later?

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Re: Gunfighter MCG is on the way to EU

Postby Eduard VKB FSC » Fri May 25, 2018 13:20

neor wrote:This takes too much time. I have ordered the "normal" Version. Not ideal but better as nothing...
How much would it cost for upgrading to the Pro version later?
I believe you have ordered GF2 Tabletop with MCG EN grip. If you need to use the stick with a grip extension a.k.a Pro pack. That's pack includes the extension, small base plate, extra strong springs and will cost approx 70 EUR. It will be available for separate purchase later.

But there are two types of grips - MCG and MCG Pro. The latter one we do not have in EU stock and we do not offer upgrading MCG to MCG Pro.

The only possibility is to buy separate MCG Pro additionally. Pro version of MCG will be available with the new shipment in August/September. If you want MCG Pro at the end, maybe it makes more sense to order KG12 version for now as it is cheaper.

I know that it is confusing to name it Pro for both joystick combo and the grip variant...
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Re: Gunfighter MCG is on the way to EU

Postby navvar » Fri May 25, 2018 20:04

Slightly off-topic and I'm sure this has been asked a lot, but is there any news about the twist adapter? Last I heard of it was a VKB representative estimating a mid-May release on reddit about a month ago.


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