Gun fighter/VKB noob question!

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Dragonbait
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Gun fighter/VKB noob question!

Postby Dragonbait » Mon Jul 03, 2017 15:54

So my gunfighter arrived w00t!
Was I wrong to assume it would work "out of the box"?
I have attached the handle just fine, the bit that is wrong looks to be, i'm guessing, the clutches, as out of the box movement is "sticky" and the joystick really doesn't center itself.
Is it normal to have to loosen the clutches at the start?

Also I have a gunfighter and the pedals.
Both come with a "black box", and the box looks like it can control a pedals and a stick.
The two boxes are a different though, which should I use, or should I use separate ones?

Thanks!

Daniel
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Re: Gun fighter/VKB noob question!

Postby Daniel » Mon Jul 03, 2017 21:10

I received mine Saturday and I had read somewhere that they tightened the clutches for shipping , so yes you need to loosen them.
The black box question, I used the one that came with the gunfighter, seems to work fine, not sure if there is any difference.

Dragonbait
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Re: Gun fighter/VKB noob question!

Postby Dragonbait » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:08

Thanks, I loosened them off and I think I found a good balance for now!

The two "black boxes" are quite different, they have different connectors etc.
Both have a 4 pin port for the stick, and a RJ45 port for the peddles.
So I don't know how things should be wired up; do I use 1 box and have both devices plugged into it? or do I use 2 boxes and 2 usb cables? Or some third option like 2 boxes, connected with the network cable between the sys ports and one plugged in to usb port?
Can't believe they are sending these out without even a basic PDF manual being available :(

JohnMitchell
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Re: Gun fighter/VKB noob question!

Postby JohnMitchell » Tue Jul 04, 2017 12:21

Just use Blackbox that came with Gunfighter, plug pedals in it and have fun. If pedals don't work - reset BB to "default" and recalibrate.

pretagonist
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Re: Gun fighter/VKB noob question!

Postby pretagonist » Tue Jul 04, 2017 14:03

These are enthusiast grade kits. You really can't expect it to be plug n play.

As far as I know you can connect both to the stick box or use the boxes separately. It depends if you want the devices to be shown as one or two devices in windows.

Dragonbait
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Re: Gun fighter/VKB noob question!

Postby Dragonbait » Tue Jul 04, 2017 16:47

Oh I knew I'd be able to modify them somewhat, just assumed it would have come with usable defaults for me to judge what needed doing.
It just had me worried that there was a problem with the joystick.
Wouldn't have been so bad had there been a manual to explain it all!

Dragonbait
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Re: Gun fighter/VKB noob question!

Postby Dragonbait » Tue Jul 04, 2017 20:41

I'm finding in game the joystick centering is really poor, is that likely to be the clutches are still too tight?
I have loosened them as far as I can, but the centering still seems weak, when I look at the lines in Joytester, the Y axis line jiggles whilst I'm not touching the stick, is that normal?

Thanks :)

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AeroGator
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Re: Gun fighter/VKB noob question!

Postby AeroGator » Wed Jul 05, 2017 9:16

GFs in fact allow for nearly unlimited tactile customization. Same goes about centering.
You may set up your controls anywhere between "joystick moves when you breathe in its direction" and "you need both hands to move it".
Clutches are only one of (and not the primary) means of such customization.

Clutches are there primarily to kill reactive movement of the joystick, so it does not oscillate after being released.

Included in the set are replacement cams and springs.
#10 cams are designed for the smoothest movement, however they don't promise to be accurate about centering: you may choose this setup if you fly helicopters.
#30 cams have a tiny dip at zero point, thus providing you with well pronounced centering.
Every cam can be used with any spring, moreover, you can use two springs on one cam for even more precise customization. Hint: spring numbers do NOT relate to cam numbers (i.e., #10 springs can be used with any cam, not just with #10).

Take the grip off, remove the dust cover, unscrew 4 bolts, and take the whole gimbal out of the case. Play with the cams and springs until you feel like you're somewhere near what you aim for. Reinstall the gimbal and fix it with 2 diagonally located bolts (no need to use all 4 right now). Fix the grip. Try how it moves. Repeat if necessary.
When you're happy with the feeling you get, fix the gimbal with the remaining 2 bolts, reinstall the dust cover and fix the grip.

You do need to invest some time to get your perfect feeling, but once you've reached it you won't consider this time wasted.

Enjoy your flights.

And one more thing, never ever calibrate your joystick by the means of Windows.
Best Regards,
AeroGator

Dragonbait
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Re: Gun fighter/VKB noob question!

Postby Dragonbait » Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:19

Thanks for that, I had read enough to not use the Windows calibration, I have stuck to VKB software only :)
Which of the cams do you think would be better for Starcitizen?
What "weight" are the springs that are installed by default? I have seen them only called "normal", but was thinking of moving up one level, but the included springs use the number system.

Really liking the quality of the stick, and the peddles are perfect!

redribbon
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Re: Gun fighter/VKB noob question!

Postby redribbon » Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:26

Do pedals have brake option or just jaw/rudder axis, i might order them, probablly will!
I'm limited with space so they seems perfect!
Last edited by redribbon on Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:38, edited 1 time in total.

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AeroGator
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Re: Gun fighter/VKB noob question!

Postby AeroGator » Wed Jul 05, 2017 11:35

Dragonbait wrote:Which of the cams do you think would be better for Starcitizen?

That's the matter of personal habits, please try it for yourself.

Regarding the springs, 10 is the weakest, 50 - the strongest. Factory installed are the 20s.
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AeroGator

redribbon
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Re: Gun fighter/VKB noob question!

Postby redribbon » Thu Jul 06, 2017 20:17

I released a bit those two copper screws and add second springs #20 on each axis and it is fine.
End position should be hard to pull

orlaag
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Re: Gun fighter/VKB noob question!

Postby orlaag » Sat Jul 08, 2017 8:36

There is no out the box that is perfect as it depends on what you fly and your style too. What do you mainly play? The hard part is it is designed with stick adapts to your way rather than you adapt to the sticks way. With that flexibility comes effort and more thought of what you want rather than what you're used to. Sounds obvious but the kneejerk I and others have at first is to make it act like a generic average stick when that may or may not be what you're after, for many options it is what we get used to because we can't make it act any other way so everything takes a bit of getting used to period to see if we prefer it I found so test each setup out for a while before judging it if you can.

I have mine set for helos in DCS and XPlane11 mainly but still doable for fixed wing in same sims (mainly) so have gone with the smooth no detent/centre bump cams, higher friction so stick doesn't return to centre fully and a single no.40 spring per axis (room for 2 which is nice surprise) and running with the extension. In the apps I have the controls setup linear to almost linear (very light curves in DCS of around 8 for most aircraft).Also bonus for me is tendency to induce PIO is lessened by strong spring and high friction

I'd loosened off the stick to centre in the software, plus to test what it was like but tightened it again after trying out a few things. I find sticky high friction not centring around the inner zone but doing so from mid/outer (due to not maxing out the tension plus running hard springs) is perfect balance for me and makes everything flyable. Even the notorious flight model of DCS gazelle flys perfect with hardly any need to use trim due to staying where I put it in the inner control zone (that bird flys around the centre/inner zone with no need to push limits). The accuracy and precision is incredible but trick is spending the time and finding what works for you.

Sokol1
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Re: Gun fighter/VKB noob question!

Postby Sokol1 » Sat Jul 08, 2017 23:15

redribbon wrote:Do pedals have brake option or just jaw/rudder axis, i might order them, probablly will!
I'm limited with space so they seems perfect!


T-Rudder pedal has only one physical axis - the rudder axis (or yaw axis).

The associated software T-Link allow set a button in joystick/throttle that will press
two virtual axis that can be assigned for right and left brakes if game need.

Press that joy/throttle button and both wheels will be braked equals.
But move the rudder bar for side before press the button, and only the wheel of this side will be braked.

The operation result similar to British/Russian "differential brake" system see in Spitfires, Hurricane, Yak-1, La-5, Mig-15, Mig-21, La-39...

User comments about: https://forums.eagle.ru/showthread.php?t=190315

redribbon
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Re: Gun fighter/VKB noob question!

Postby redribbon » Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:50

excellant!
thank you!


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