VKB-SIM

Hi people

I just received my double Gladiator EVO set up. Both premium, one Left handed omni throttle and one normal Right handed stick. I've moved from a CH Products Fighterstick and Pro Throttle HOTAS. I had already upgraded from CH Products Rudder Pedals to VKB T.Rudder MKIV several years ago. Until I made this purchase I was simply unable to control the Huey in DCS with the CH Products Rudder Pedals. The VKB T.Rudder was immediately impressive upon opening the box, and impressed further once in use. Helicopters and indeed aircraft in general are much easier to control.

I had been stalking VKB Controllers long before I pulled the trigger on the rudder pedals. Specifically I've watched the development of the Gunfighter over the years and had originally planned on buying one eventually. Due to my limited budget I began watching the Gladiator iterations more closely over the years. The range has always received positive reviews and much is respected in the midrange flight controller market, so it became a contender for me. When the EVO was revealed with its adjustable damping solution, I decided the Gladiator EVO would suit me best. The icing on the cake came with the omni throttle. Now I had the ability to also replace my CH Products Pro Throttle. What made this all even better was that, during my google search to place the order, I discovered that there was now an Australian distributor of VKB Controller. This made me a happy Australian. Took just 3 days for the controllers to arrive via express post.

I opened the first Gladiator base box and examined the unit. I was so blown away by the build quality I started shaking my head. This practice continued as I explored the workings and set up the base to act as my throttle. The quality of these controllers is amazing for the price. The ability to customise the controllers to your liking and indeed the encouragement from VKB to do so is such a different and refreshing approach compared with what we're used to seeing from the world of electronic consumer goods.

I had both controllers assembled and working on my system within 40mins. Some minor quibbles with setting them up in the VKB Config software (due to my incompetence) were quickly resolved with a few forum searches (thanks for that, Community!).

The JAS-39 Gripen Community mod in DCS was the lucky first aircraft for the Gladiator twins' maiden flight, as this was the last aircraft I flew with the old setup, so made sense for a solid comparison. I never imagined how big of a difference the stick damping and heavier springs would make to aircraft handling. Even the heavier throttle motion due to turning the damping force right up just makes engine control feel that much more assertive. Don't let anyone tell you that quality controls won't make a difference. Well maybe some people can fly as good as ever with any setup, but for me, this new setup has improved my flying considerably to what it was. Take off pitching is no longer "bouncy" like it was with my old stick due to having more weight and resistance in the stick. Similarly, landing is easy now, where as I seemed to struggle finding the right throttle position and AOA on my old setup.

I want to mention a brief side note on CH Products. This company, who have been constantly praised over the years as making top quality products, have failed to keep their controllers updated into the modern era. Their software doesn't even work correctly on Windows 10. On the Pro Throttle, the mini-analogue-stick (the main reason I bought the thing) suffered terrible offset around centre from the moment I pulled it from the box and plugged it in. This made it pretty much useless for the main reason I bought it which was thruster control in Elite Dangerous. I have experienced no such issues with the VKB SCG sticks. I queried CH Products about this problem via email, accompanied by a screenshot of the problem which was revealed in their controller management software. Their reply was "this is within tollerances and behaving as expected." To put it bluntly the company clearly has no investment in the simulation community, yet I still see their prehistoric peripherals selling for ludicrous amounts of money as if they're some God's given gift to the simming world. Sorry, I know I digress, but the point is I really don't see that in VKB. People seem to give them a lot of flak for taking ages to release certain peripherals, but maybe that's because they care? They don't want to release a half-baked item only to then have to make upgrade kits when they iterate on a design over time. I believe this happened with the Gunfighter and VIRPIL has had a similar problem with their throttle iterations. I am certain VKB are going to respond with something better than "It's within tollerances" if your bloody ministick is suffering 15° of loose play around centre. And that's because they're passionate about this industry. It's a proper "for simmers by simmers" scenario.

I'll step down from my soap box now and wrap this up by saying the customisation the VKB Config software allows is unreal and I intend to push deeper into that to get my button and axis settings exactly where I want them.

In closing I want to thank VKB for their continued efforts for the flight Sim community. The mid-level flight controls segment in particular is so much better off for it.

Cheers

Reading this is funny. Apart from being in the states and getting a GF and GNX about 6 months ago, my experience is largely the same - a CH setup moved to VKB with two SCGs and a 3d printed Omni. I'm quite happy. I will probably pick up and EVO base (or upgrade kit) and actual Omni once the bases are released separately.

If you dig around, there is a great thread where someone helped me set up the throttle stick to be switchable between absolute and relative axis modes, so you don't need to mess with the config - just tap a button on the base. I use the light on the base to keep track of which mode it's in. Not sure if this would be useful to you, but I figured I'd mention the possibility.

Thanks for taking the time to put this together and for your nice words. We all know how good our products are and we really believe in them, but a pat on the back is welcomed from time to time Cheers!

mattcaron

That sounds interesting Matt, I'll check it out. I'm all for any improvements in functionality.

fallout9

My pleasure, mate. I certainly wouldn't bother if the products weren't worthy of compliments. Being one of the most prominent VKB mods I see on various forums on the internet, I'm sure you could do with a pat on the back yourself. I'm sure you weather plenty of crap from all directions! Keep it up! Cheers.

t00thPIK wrote:
I want to mention a brief side note on CH Products. This company, who have been constantly praised over the years as making top quality products, have failed to keep their controllers updated into the modern era. Their software doesn't even work correctly on Windows 10. On the Pro Throttle, the mini-analogue-stick (the main reason I bought the thing) suffered terrible offset around centre from the moment I pulled it from the box and plugged it in. This made it pretty much useless for the main reason I bought it which was thruster control in Elite Dangerous. I have experienced no such issues with the VKB SCG sticks. I queried CH Products about this problem via email, accompanied by a screenshot of the problem which was revealed in their controller management software. Their reply was "this is within tollerances and behaving as expected."

While this probably isn't the place to discuss CH at length, I do have to wonder what's going on with them. They still seem to be in business (sort of), but from what I gather they (or their parent company?) are more into industrial work/customers these days. Plus I can't find their stuff anywhere over here in Europe at reasonable prices. When I bought my Pro Throttle back in 2014 or 2015, I got it from amazon de for 140 €uros. Today, I'd have to pay over 200 - and not from an official store but from some funny little sellers on ebay or amazon MP. And most of those don't have any in stock anyway. Weird.

However: Their products are, IMO, still some of the best around in the entry-level sector when it comes to build quality/materials. My Pro Pedals are from the mid 90s (I have been using them on a USB-converter for years before I put them into storage) and they still look and feel like new. Seeing how they haven't really brought out anything new since switching their stuff from Gameport to USB is rather sad and rather puzzling. Their old Fighterstick FF was pretty great, as are their Pro Pedals (as mentioned) and their Pro Throttle .... only problem is that the FF isn't even being built anymore and both the pedals and the throttle are seriously outdated when it comes to their interiors. Heck, I wouldn't even ask them for the level of tech that VKB throw into even their entry-level stuff, but seeing how they still sell their throttle pot-based is rather sad. In lots of ways, that thing is so much better than the TM throttle I use now, but the constant spiking and lack of resolution really sour the product for me, especially at the price.

OTOH... while I found their software to look comically 1998, it always worked great for me, even on Win10 (haven't used it on Win11). It always struck me as unsexy looking, but when I compare it to what Thrustmaster are calling their TARGET-suite, CH still wins in my book. Plus their customer support used to be rather good ... at least back when CH Hangar was still around. I remember posting a question there about my jittery CH Pro Throttle's main axis and a few days later, someone from CH contacted me on their own initiative, offering to send me a free replacement pot, no questions asked.


S.

Yeah APEM owns CH Products now. CH was always big into the industrial controller sector. I guess they just naturally added some game controllers to their offerings as it was in their wheelhouse. But once they made something that worked, they just stopped developing. When APEM bought the company I think the game controllers were pushed even farther into the shadows.

Sad thing is if you google CH Hall Effect Joystick you will find an industrial spec joystick offered by CH that uses a hall effect sensor. I'm sure it would be easy for them to modify their joystick range to implement this tech. But if APEM isn't interested in this, then their hands are tied. Maybe as the Sim market continues to expand they might rejuvenate the CH brand and start making some new products. It would be cool to see, but I won't be holding my breath.

Edit:
I also should add that even if CH Products returned to the flight sim controller industry, I would be my life saving on them not allowing for the amount of customisation that VKB encourages with their products. We would possibly end up with fully digital/magnetic sensors instead of pots, but there would be no official spring customisation or damping effects. I doubt they'd even spend money updating the external design of such a product.