Gunfighter Mk. III + MCG Ultimate Springs

[Pac-man]

Hello everyone,

I just received my Gunfighter Mk. III with the Modern Combat Grip Ultimate (all metal) yesterday. I am a bit of a rookie when I comes to such professional gear. But I have noticed that the springs that come pre-installted with the stick are a bit on the weak side (#20 I believe). I suppose I will have to replace them with stronger ones, because the stick keeps sagging to the front of the pitch axis a little.

I have already found a good youtube Video by VKB (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRVab9Hq40Y) but I am not sure which springs to install.

Would 1 #40 spring on each axis be enough to support the weight of the all metal grip? Or should I add more than one spring on either side?

Best regards and let me say: I already love this stick. I feels amazing and is such a huge upgrade over my thrustmaster t16000.

[Talorien]

Hi there, assuming you’re not using an extension, yes a single #40 will certainly support the grip weight well, and (imho) gives it a nice stiff premium feel.

Double #30s provide a roughly similar feel (I actually found the singe #40 a bit stiffer) and are easier to install.

Be careful installing the spring - I find the #40 tricky using the wire tool supplied, and now use an all-metal blackhead removal (cosmetics) tool instead.

You should be ok using the wire a few times, mine started to fray (VKB does provide a spare with the Gunfighter) so I jumped at the chance to get the blackhead tool.

[Pac-man]

You‘re right. I am not using an extension and the stick is on my desk. Sorry, should’ve mentioned that.

Thanks for the warning. If the #40s are really that strong I will be careful. I thought that two springs would be harder to install than one, because the casing seems a bit tight for two springs.

I am not at home right now and won’t be for a few days, but I will try this as soon as I find the time and will report back.

[Talorien]

Welcome! Let us know how it goes.

Installing 2 springs on one axis is absolutely no issue, there’s room.

Don’t forget to put the little sleeve on, and make the inner spring face inward and the outer spring face outward.

[Pac-man]

I have had some time now and put #40 springs on both axis. They are quite stiff, just like you said. However, the stick was still not centering perfectly on the pitch axis when pulling it back ans letting go.

So I added two #20 springs on each axis, bringing both axis to #40 + #20. The stick now centers perfectly, just like I wanted it to. There was not enough time to test the stick thoroughly with DCS, but I think I’m quite satisfied for now.

Maybe it will be a bit too stiff on the edges when pulling the stick really far back or going for a quick roll. I will have to test that in the coming days.

I made some pictures after installing the two springs. Hope this is the correct back to back order you guys were speaking of:

[Pac-man]

Having tested the Stick in DCS for about 20 hours now, I just wanted to post an update:

Flying the Tomcat with this setup (Avia-S Cams, #40 + #20 springs on both axis) feels amazing. With my old joystick I was always tempted to pull too hard, which the F14 doesn't like at all. The Avia-S cams and the strong springs prevent that, because I can't reach the edges of each axis quite as easily.

For the Hornet the setup feels a little too stiff at times. Air to air refueling works like a charm now. However, roll and pitch seem to require a bit too much force for abrupt maneuvers like "hitting the deck" to dodge a missile. That's not a problem most of the time, though.

I am wondering if 2 #30 springs on each axis would be a little less stiff, while still providing that perfect return to center? Or is #40 + #20 already the same as #30 + #30?

[Drano]

If you like how the stick feels physically with your current setup but still need to tweak it I'd suggest playing around with curves in the configurator. You can make a profile with different curves for each plane as you like.

[rtrski]

Hello everyone,

I just received my Gunfighter Mk. III with the Modern Combat Grip Ultimate (all metal) yesterday. I am a bit of a rookie when I comes to such professional gear. But I have noticed that the springs that come pre-installted with the stick are a bit on the weak side (#20 I believe). I suppose I will have to replace them with stronger ones, because the stick keeps sagging to the front of the pitch axis a little. ....

Is it for sure 'sagging'? I mean, when you look at VKBJoyTester does the pitch axis show a non-halfway value?

I use mine on a mount, with a single #20, the Space cams with the soft detente, and have an actuator to deploy or stow my mount platform. I put a little bubble level on the platform, but I can pretty much use the grip pitch axis response AS a digital level, I kid you not!

With my pitch showing zero value deflection from the middle in VKBJoyTester, and my platform bubble level simultaneously centered, the front [away from user] kind of flat 'facet' on the head of the Ultimate grip is NOT a vertical face, but would (with the curve of the grip hand region itself) make me think it was "sagged forward" a bit. Similarly the back face with all the controls isn't really a vertical plane. But I think that's the designed balance point.

If your situation is different, maybe your desk is not level? Incidentally I also use almost no dry clutch pressure, either. (Just screwed in enough that the spring isn't rattling loose...)

[Pac-man]

If you like how the stick feels physically with your current setup but still need to tweak it I'd suggest playing around with curves in the configurator. You can make a profile with different curves for each plane as you like.

I do like the way it feels physically. That's why I am hesitant to change to weaker springs. I don't want to go through the motions of changing the springs, only to find out that it's not as good as #40 + #20.

Regarding curves: I have only ever used curves via the DCS controls menu. My former joystick really needed them because input around the center was not precise enough. With the MK3 + MCGU I feel like I don't need them, because the stick feels so much more precise around the center. Wouldn't curves in the VKB software have the same effect? Or is my understanding of curves wrong?

Is it for sure 'sagging'? I mean, when you look at VKBJoyTester does the pitch axis show a non-halfway value?

Yes, it was definetly sagging. I used VKBJoyTester to verify that. I also played DCS with the default #20 springs and noticed that I needed to keep holding the stick or the plane would pitch forward.

Does anyone know if #30 + #30 is the same (in regards to stiffness) as #40 + #20?

[Drano]

Curves would do the same thing. But as I understood you were having a hard time with the extreme ends of the throw? You can use curves on that end and leave the center as is. That's how I've set mine up so I don't have so much travel in either axis. I'm using a 200mm extension too. I have enough spring tension to keep the stick centered hands off and it's fine around the center, very precise. But don't use curves in the game AND with config. One or the other. There's a VKB YT vid about using curves in the configurator. Check out.

https://youtu.be/rSi11U5J6tg

[Pac-man]

That sounds interesting. I didn't know you could do that. Will give that a try. Thank you

[Drano]

Your base curve is just a straight diagonal line with the center of travel at the lower left corner and the edge of travel being at the upper right. That's just a plain Jane linear curve. Put a little bend in that upper right corner so that it extends more vertically to the left of the corner. Play around with it. If you think about it, accuracy isn't the idea when you're putting that much deflection on the stick. It's usually an evasive if you're pulling that hard either way. Where you want the accuracy is closer to center for either gunnery or refueling. Same rules apply flattening out that curve on the bottom half in the horizontal starting from the lower left corner dragging right. You can really get it dialed in this way IMO.

[Pac-man]

Thanks for the detailed description. I will definetly test this when I find the time. It's just like you wrote, it's for evasive maneuvers and not fine movement like air refueling.