"Omni Throttle"/angled adapter

[joaquinbaeza]

Hi, I was about to buy a GF plus Kosmosima LH to try to convert it in a collective and may be in an angled throttle as some DIY'ers have made in 3D printing. But today I have watched the video of your new products, and I saw that "angled" adapter and my question is:
- Is it going to be available for Gunfighter base?
- How much longer?

I don't care to wait some more weeks if can buy all together so I can save money in shipping.

Thanks in advance

[rtrski]

I ain't VKB and have no right to answer you for them.

That said, I have to believe something that's essentially just a HARD CABLE (extension with pins either end), if offered for the lower priced NXT line, would also be offered for Gunfighter.

Not all at the same time probably though. So you might be waiting a bit. If you were interested in trying the DIY route you could get a standard extension to sacrifice for the end pieces, then print (or find another person who's done it to print for you). Then upgrade to the 'real thing' when available.

Or, what I did was just changing the orientation of the Gunfighter mounting, which does almost the same thing. Not quite, the pivot point is not 'below' my hand but off to the side. But thought I'd suggest it.

[joaquinbaeza]

Hi rtrski,
I appreciate your comments. Yeah! I think the same, this would be just a "hard cable", however, I guess it would be better to buy one from VKB, because I think they have the possibilities to do a better design, for example, calculating the exact position of gravity center, so the gimbal would not be stressed in a bad way. Indeed, this is one of my biggest concerns, because I don¡t want to damage the gimbal. I guess they are going to release a GF version, sooner or later, but I wanted to be sure.

Regarding to your solution, I think I have seen the same in other forums (reddit? DCS?), but I have a gut feeling that this is not good for the gimbal, the same concern I have written, even using ther hardest springs (obviusly, in the axis that is not use for throttle). I think, in the better case, that solution would shorten lifespan of the spring that is working to maintain the stick horizontanly, because it is being stressed all the time, even at rest. What you think about it?

[apar.dspaede]

This is not so good actually coz you cant rest you arm on the Off-hand stick. I did the same thing with my GNXT-SPGp. And this just looks dope https://imgur.com/a/XldcABi

[rtrski]

Not sure what you mean. I've got the left hand angled grip aligned so that my elbow is on an armrest, and if I just relax I'm not moving it but still have good access to all the controls. My leftforearm actually feels a little more 'relaxed' than my right forearm does loosely gripping (MCG Ultimate) in the thumbs-up position. I did have to use stronger springs than I'm using on my right hand (normal) stick, and the hard detente cam, the weight of your hand in that orientation is not 'zero'. But I'm still using almost no dry clutch.

Twisting to increase or decrease throttle value (which I have relative, so I can release when I'm at a value I want vs. "holding" the twist in place) does naturally result in a little bit of lift or drop to the stick, e.g. X axis now oriented more Z-like, because of the way the wrist works. So I did need a little deadzone on the axis I'm using as my up/down thrust. I suspect the angled adapter use might mean twisting naturally creates a little "Y" axis movement as the wrist works, for the same reason.

Anyway, not trying to convince you, just offered a suggestion. I don't disagree with you that the formally offered angled adapter definitely looks nice, and I stand by my full (unofficial) expectation that they'd offer it for Gunfighter-attached grips too. It would seem kind of silly for them not too.

[rtrski]

No question, if VKB offer an official one instead of home-designed ones, it's gonna be well thought out because that's in their DNA. They'll make sure that the grip return to center is the same as for the normal grip orientation, I bet.

I can't see how simply taking a gimbal and "rotating it in space" and then applying the same 'stresses' to it at the pivoting part, in any way would alter the wear. The bearing should be held "on" the cam and aligned to it by the bolt and washer arrangement and springs, they're not relying on 'gravity' helping them out here, I don't think. If you look at a picture (link is just the first I found and might be a bit old, but effectively still pretty accurate): https://www.mudspike.com/wp-content/upl ... Gimbal.jpg ) without the spring the cams only have a tiny bit of 'gravity' holding them 'on' the bearing in the normal orientation, they're entirely dependent on the spring for real function under use. I am neither a mechanical engineer nor gimbal designer but I can't see why a non-level use of a properly assembled gimbal would hurt it. The sensor itself is no-contact sensing of position relative to a magnet, not like that's going to "wear" any differently.

Yeah, probably me on reddit too, same nick even. I'm not just a heretic, I'm a verbose heretic!

As with my comment about the gimbal, I don't think you damage springs by "always having them stressed". Springs only work as springs if they're under some level of tension (or compression, whichever they're designed and installed for). You have to stretch these springs just to get them into place. The weight of the grip alone holding the gimbal sideways isn't going to 'overstress' it compared to the range of tension you add with your hand yanking all the way to the axis limits. Like I answered elsewhere I did decide that in this orientation the hard detente made more sense to prevent just a little bit of a 'default zero' bias....but you only damage or kill a spring by stretching (or compressing, again dependent on its design intent and configuration) it beyond the point where it actually "yields" a little bit, beyond its strength limit, e.g. accepts a permanent 'stretch'. That's related to the temper and thickness of the spring. Anything below that level it pretty much ignores. Constant flexing causing work hardening shouldn't happen in metal tempered to be a spring either (think bending a solid copper conductor back and forth until it breaks), but I think it maybe does out near the bent-out, install-loop ends, where it might have been intentionally yielded after tempering, that's probably the source of joystick springs failing after some time in use. But even then it wasn't "gentle static resting tension" that lead to it.

Anyway, a whole lot of nattering about my unofficial cutesy sideways idea. I do confess, after I did it, and saw the sideways grip adapters come out by some of the other posters who liked the general concept but hit upon that solution instead, part of me just wanted to slap myself. I'd even talked about a "T-grip" shape myself, and not come up with that idea. But the one remaining advantage my setup has is I can still fit the upcoming TECS throttle on my left hand side underneath this grip as well, since my gimbal is off to the side. I've even got a home on my chair rail reserved for its eventual but inevitable arrival.

[apar.dspaede]

oh its coming..

[rtrski]

That's only shown on a GNXT though. We're all speculating about it coming for Gunfighter too. Which makes sense, I think....but isn't what's pictured there unless I miss-viewed it.

[SimpleSimon]

I would also like to buy an official omni throttle arm for the gunfighter

[mattcaron]

I've been doing a lot of airplane games recently, but for giggles, last night I fired up descent 1x rebirth and messed around with a 2 stick set-up using my old saitek s290 as a left hand stick. Night and day difference so, I'll be buying a Kosmosima Omni throttle once it releases. I don't think I want to use it for a normal plane throttle, though, so I still need a TECS.

Guess I'll need to pick up more consulting.

[apar.dspaede]

I would also like to buy an official omni throttle arm for the gunfighter

I think most guys would just buy a GNXT as an Offhand stick.. Having two GF is quite some $$$. Maybe they considered that as well..

[Ilich]

So.... Where is it? The modules have appeared on sale, but there is no angled adapter. Neither for NXT nor for Gunfighter.

[Ron61]

Not everything shown in the video will be on sale today. Read the announcement about the available products carefully - there is not even a hint of this adapter.

[mattcaron]

So, hypothetically speaking, if I were to 3D print one of the many omnithrottle designs while I wait for the real one for the GNX, what's the best way to extend the existing cable that sticks out the bottom? The connector looks like a very small JST connector, but it's not one that I've seen before. Does anyone recognize it well enough to give a string that I can search to try to find the pieces to make an extension cable? I'd like to try to avoid the old cut and splice, because I want to be able to put it back to vanilla when an official one is released.

[joaquinbaeza]

I dismantled my extension of 200mm and I think it is a normal JST conector. I measured the pitch between pins: 1.25mm
Anyway, consider you must have an extension due to outter connectors, those that go attached to the base of the stick and over the gimbal (excuse my English)