VKB-SIM

So, today Virpil announced their new grip with twist and analog thumbstick - basically the equivalent of the MCG Pro WITH a twist.

Are you guys ever going to release the twist mod? If not you guys are about to lose A LOT of people who have been waiting for over two years now since you said it was in development and coming 'soon'....

I only bought the MCG Pro from you guys as you stated that the twist mod was still coming (I specifically emailed and asked before ordering), and again you said soon (was waiting to buy for over a year and bought in November last year and only on your word that the twist mod was coming, as you said, soon...). Saw another post in another forum where you said September THIS year, but no announcements made since.

Looking at returning the MCG Pro to you guys and asking for a refund soon as this is getting beyond ridiculous, trusted you when I ordered in November and am feeling lied to at this point. The competition has now more than overtaken you (they are on their second throttle, TECs is still nowhere to be seen). Why wait for your no updates and ever moving 'soon' anymore...?

Patience is getting thin as you can tell - update or I'm out and I'd say a lot of potential customers will also be gone.

(salty post I know, but this is honestly beyond a joke now)

Most of us including leading engineers were out of China for a month.
Back now.
Twist is coming, it's the next one out on our production schedule.

But WHEN on the schedule? You have literally provided no updates on anything.

Virpil are beating you at everything simply because you don't communicate and say 'soon' or 'on the schedule'. Not much to go by...

Well, apparently there's gonna be a big announcement this month about at least a few things. I think VKB said somewhere that linear cams were confirmed for that, and hopefully twist adaptors are also on that list?

RecklessPrudence wrote:Well, apparently there's gonna be a big announcement this month about at least a few things. I think VKB said somewhere that linear cams were confirmed for that, and hopefully twist adaptors are also on that list?

I'll believe it when I see it, and even their notification of an announcement was vague as **** . Various game forums are all in agreement, VKB is dead in the water and moments away from sinking.

it's nice to see another company developing controllers for the community

I can speak as someone who owns several products from many companies and I can speak as someone who moderates the /r/hotas and the official HOTAS/HOSAS/SIMPIT Discord server, so I know a few things

VKB = Quality.

Easty79 wrote:

RecklessPrudence wrote:Well, apparently there's gonna be a big announcement this month about at least a few things. I think VKB said somewhere that linear cams were confirmed for that, and hopefully twist adaptors are also on that list?

I'll believe it when I see it, and even their notification of an announcement was vague as **** . Various game forums are all in agreement, VKB is dead in the water and moments away from sinking.

I would say something like "this is why we can't have nice things", but I have some nice things made by VKB and you're just coming across as a whiny, entitled brat.

ddrake1984 wrote:VKB = Quality.

Speaking as a mere sales rep who uses VKB products daily in DCS, I do appreciate VKB's quality as well. I strongly believe that designing and engineering something that's as modular and as qualitatively sound, along with offering a high level of hardware- and software-configuration customization options, takes time. A lot more time than vaccuforming and super gluing - just sayin'...

MelkorsGreatestHits wrote:

Easty79 wrote:

RecklessPrudence wrote:Well, apparently there's gonna be a big announcement this month about at least a few things. I think VKB said somewhere that linear cams were confirmed for that, and hopefully twist adaptors are also on that list?

I'll believe it when I see it, and even their notification of an announcement was vague as **** . Various game forums are all in agreement, VKB is dead in the water and moments away from sinking.

I would say something like "this is why we can't have nice things", but I have some nice things made by VKB and you're just coming across as a whiny, entitled brat.

Mate - asking for information and being given nothing, asking specifically before pouring a lot of money in being told yes, soon and then hearing nothing for over a year..... Not whiny brat - customer who feels lied to after being patient for a very long time is what I am. Frustrated after being tolerant is what I am - after all the hype and NO updates (by the way, two years is not soon from when they announced things) a concern that nothing has happened and we may have been lied to is a legitimate concern. If they get up and actually show some progress or provide information then yeah, we can be more accommodating, but there has been nada, zilch, zero. If you aren't concerned by this then good on you - but if you take a step back, look at the bigger picture, does it look like a healthy company and a healthy business model?

I like the product, just not the customer service communication - which is akin to nothing.

I understand your frustration, but look at the problem this way - the product has been announced and we know they're working on it. It's not out yet not because they want people to get annoyed, but because probably it's not at their standards yet. So they're testing a new version, and another better version and 3 more after that before sending it on the shelves. I'm a restless customer too, I want the products I'm after NOW, but you know what, in this case, instead of getting a nice, good working product (like VPC) I'd rather wait some more and get something extraordinary. Have you ever try an MT50 grip? Works well, but open it up - full of loose wires and a bucket of glue. After that open up the MCG or SCG grips and realize why I don't give a sh:!:t on how many grips or throttles or twist adapters other makers are coming out and I'll wait another 3-6-12 months, whatever it needs for VKB to release that thing.
Peace!

Please note VKB is not Thrustmaster nor is it Logitech, the scale of things this company (VKB) produce are in smaller quantity and higher quality.
I am not here to bad mouth other competitors as I believe all vendors have a purpose and have a value, their place in the market being larger scale, mass production and cheaper lower end products.

I believe in VKB as a company, they have
- provided information and updates when needed, not when demanded.
- assisted consumers when they have issues.
- provided quality and assurance over their product line
- participated in community discussions on external 3rd party forums and social media
- improved designs and listened to customer feedback
- provided test units to testers, to ensure quality and design was being achieved.

They do not lie, they are engineers, if you don't understand what an engineer is like; then allow me to explain.
an engineer can be at sometimes overexcited about what they are doing (under the hood) and display graphics and ideas/concepts before they are ready.
an engineer is always optimistic and very accommodating to their designs and features, they take positive feedback well and try to improve where they can.
an engineer has a reason for their decisions and you can confirm with them, first hand why they did things the way they did.
however above all, they must ensure it works as intended!

If they do not respond after every message from every person every day, does this make them bad at communication? no, it makes you impatient.
please note, they live lives and work full time jobs, so that they can bring you the very best quality products to you the consumer, at a very reasonable price.

VKB have a business to run, and they have been running it longer than most in the industry, they are professional and above all else, they are accommodating.

Do I feel the need to defend VKB every time? Yes! and here is why.
The company has done nothing wrong, they have bent over backwards to help and accommodate to requests, they have even provided future concepts before they were ready.
They have policies for very long warranty periods and they stand by a refund policy if not satisfied.
They do not complain when people get on their forums and compare their company with others, they do not complain when you state nasty things about them.
they get lots of toxic attitude on their own forums, reddit and other 3rd party forums, but do they complain? no! they remain professional.
it is my belief that some parts of the community have been misinformed by the toxic/self entitled/only child syndrome of the Y2K and those are the only people that are spreading the only lies and false accusations.

TLDR

VKB = Quality

I'm also an engineer and fully understand perfecting things.

From a business sense (because they are running a business) simply updating the customers with the word 'soon' is a horrendous business plan. Never in my 22 years of engineering have we ever simply said soon with no technical updates whatsoever, if we had we would have lost clients - especially if we had said nothing but 'soon' for two years running.

Yes they have quality, I never argued that. Yes quality takes time, I never argued that.

Asking for an update after literal years is not a winey, millenial, want now thing - it's common sense.

Would you sink money into a company that did this anywhere else? I doubt it, at a guess I'd say people are defending them as they have all the products they want for now and aren't likely to update for some time.

But - think of it this way, if you all happy with your gear and the support you currently get - imagine they go out of business as the lack of customer engagement allows the competition to streak ahead. Think long term, think bigger picture - as this may well happen.

P.S. I used to recommend VKB, but from a business standpoint and long term view - I can't until I see viable change.

Easty79 wrote:I'm also an engineer and fully understand perfecting things.

From a business sense (because they are running a business) simply updating the customers with the word 'soon' is a horrendous business plan. Never in my 22 years of engineering have we ever simply said soon with no technical updates whatsoever, if we had we would have lost clients - especially if we had said nothing but 'soon' for two years running.

I wont get into a war with you Easty79, however stating things like, "never in my 22 years of engineering.." and then talking about business models?
This clearly demonstrates you do not understand business and it's for the best to leave it to the professionals.

especially if we had said nothing but 'soon' for two years running.

You will be surprised that "soon" is a common used term in business, especially when things are not ready to be disclosed.
Please note, they do not hold a contract with you, therefore no obligation on giving you firm timeframes.
Where you might be confusing things, is that in your company (I assume a much larger one) they have contractual agreement to provide estimates on their projects/product schedule.
These are usually shared within the company or commercial and not disclosed to the wider audiences as it is 'need to know'

there is definitely no harm in asking for an update, and VKB will surely give you something - when they have something to give you.

Would you sink money into a company that did this anywhere else?

referring to what exactly? the aforementioned clearly demonstrates they are operating as a business, I would 'give' them money for their products, but not 'sink'
money sinking is very different, please don't confuse investment terminology
- money sinking is in relation to investing money into a company/product etc, with the intention of making a profit later.

if you all happy with your gear and the support you currently get

I am happy with the gear as it is agreed between everyone to be highest quality gear on the market, and the support is available, when you ask for it. (and they are not on holiday)

imagine they go out of business as the lack of customer engagement allows the competition to streak ahead.

and here we are;
Exhibit A - this is what I have been talking about, spreading wild lies and rumours because you are upset.
Don't try to lay blame to a company only doing their job, just because you yourself have a chip on your shoulder.
They have been operating as a business for many years, you have demonstrated nothing if not empty accusations and complaints with no business acumen.

Think long term, think bigger picture - as this may well happen.

VKB are business professionals, they are developing newer products with some being backward compatible. not every company has this way of thinking, but VKB do.
also, not just hardware, but their software is by far the most advanced piece of software for these peripherals, yet they are still improving and designing it to be even more powerful and feature packed.
do yourself a favour and read their documentation, you will soon realise that no-one, no competing company produces this kind of detail in their documentation.

P.S. I used to recommend VKB, but from a business standpoint and long term view - I can't until I see viable change.

not sure what to say here, so in closing
you have accused VKB for not operating as a business, with no solid evidence or proof.
my objections is that you have no business knowledge and I have counter argued with explanations and proof that they are operating as a business.
my words of advice; When you talk about business as you are clearly a "22 year engineer?" maybe get a degree in business and come back for a chat.

You have missed the point entirely - lets recap on what I said.

I SPECIFICALLY asked if the twist mod was still coming as I would only buy if it still was, they said yes and soon. There have been literally NO UPDATES apart from the word soon.

You don't need a business degree to understand that that is terrible customer communications skills - which has been my point from the start.

They've said they have a small team, that has traveled so updates soon (nothing came from that), one was sick and updates soon (nothing came from that).

Look at this:

https://www.black-hog.com/blog/

A small team who still engages with the community and explains delays. This is how it should be done, this keeps the community up to date and understanding about delays.

If you leave the VKB forum (which is overwhelmingly full of fanboys, as you would expect - no surprises there), you will see that damn near everyone is waiting for updates and love the product but have little to no faith in the company. Is this the case, are they going under? I don't know, I'm not saying they are - but if they don't communicate with the community they run the risk of running themselves out of the market.

Key word there, marketing, there is none. Hard to advise people to buy products from a company (no matter how good they are) if it isn't clear if you can get customer support or spares in the future - there's the sinking money into it, investing A LOT in a product that if it broke may never be able to be repaired. I've seen engineering businesses give reasons for delays similar to this (travel, staff illness, delivery delays) with no evidence of progress and no proof of their reasoning but their word - they went bankrupt, all of them.

It's a theme I don't like the look of and a very human way of covering up severe issues - hence my insistence on actual news and updates.

In saying that, I'd love to be proven wrong and encourage VKB to do so! But nothing for years, it's not a good look my friend and it isn't misinformation - it's a legitimate concern.

iwanttobelieve.png

I really do.