A few ideas for a potential Space Throttle

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RecklessPrudence
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A few ideas for a potential Space Throttle

Postby RecklessPrudence » Wed Feb 08, 2017 16:42

I was on the HOTAS subreddit, and a user known as 'ngetal' posted a rather interesting breakdown of current throttles:
ngetal wrote:Assuming you want 6dof in a space sim like E:D and you have your rotational controls sorted by your main hand stick plus pedals perhaps, and want all the translation controls on your off-hand, a few options you currently have are (along with their drawbacks imo):

  • Off-hand stick without twist - you lose one analog axis
  • Off-hand stick with twist - one axis (twist) has a good chance of feeling unnatural (to me at least, ymmw)
  • Throttle without analog stick - you lose 2 analog axes
  • CH-style throttle (analog stick on thumb) - Thumb is focused on maneuvering and have to switch away from that to operate other buttons
  • FCS-style throttle (analog stick on index finger) - To me at least, lateral controls with my index finger feel very uncomfortable and imprecise

And then they proposed a new take on things:
ngetal wrote:So I thought, you could have something like the following:

  • Throttle-like (horizontal-ish) handle with lots of buttons accessible to the thumb
  • One-axis (vertical) mini-stick for your index finger, roughly where a hat is on the CH throttle or the mini-stick on the FCS
  • The whole throttle handle can be moved across 2 axes: the "normal" one and a spring-centered lateral one

Which sounded to me far better than anything on the market currently.

Other ideas posited were this, by 'redmercuryvendor':
redmercuryvendor wrote:I'd love to see a T-stick style throttle, with a damped unsprung axis for 'primary' thrust, and spring-return axes for lateral thrust. The tricky part is the mechanism to do that well is bulky, which means commercially expensive.

and 'hon0' and 'redmercuryvendor's conversation about the Stewart Platform Delta Throttles:
hon0 wrote:Look at "delta throttle". https://youtu.be/JsTwS5lIMzs

I prefer this delta stick personally. https://youtu.be/Fj2KQ9aM_M4

redmercuryvendor wrote:I've seen the Stewart Platform based sticks/throttles before, their main issue is the requirement of active force-feedback to provide any sort of haptic feedback: without the servos, your hand is basically floating in mid air with no 'feel' of which axis you are moving in.

And I was thinking that it might interest some of the VKB designers to see what some of us who play a lot of Space Sims are thinking about. The T-stick is similar to what NASA's been using in spacecraft since the Apollo program, if not earlier, and the Delta Throttle or Stick (which can easily be a throttle) might be something that VKB do their own take on, and figure out a way to provide some haptic feedback so users can feel which axis they're moving in, while 'ngetal's 6DOF throttle might be easier to put into production.

Whatever you guys end up doing, I'm sure it will be worth buying, but here's some roads that are currently not traveled by anything but a few home builders.

elmar01
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Re: A few ideas for a potential Space Throttle

Postby elmar01 » Thu Feb 09, 2017 3:51

As long as its ambidextrous and has a reverse detent it will be a great product :)

RecklessPrudence
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Re: A few ideas for a potential Space Throttle

Postby RecklessPrudence » Thu Feb 09, 2017 17:17

elmar01 wrote:As long as its ambidextrous and has a reverse detent it will be a great product :)

Well, considering the role the thumb plays in controls, and the horizontal rather than vertical orientation of three out of four of the proposals...

The Delta Stick is the exception, and would be roughly as easy to make ambidextrous as any given stick, considering it's a stick that moves freely in three dimensions on some arms, which can be made into servo-arms and loaded with force feedback that doesn't differ depending on the program, only the position of the stick.

Although it strikes me that the T-throttle would probably be the second-easiest to make ambidextrous, as it seems to me to be the easiest to make removable. That's just a gut feeling, though. And you'd really want to make the locking mechanism very sturdy, as you will be pulling on the thing to slow down.

Then, the unnamed one from ngetal seems like the third easiest to make ambidextrous, as it seems to be the second-easiest to make modular in order to mount a leftie grip.

And then the Delta Throttle seems like the hardest, given the force feedback requirements to give haptic feedback, and the problem with doing so when the throttle is only held by whatever modular mounting point connects to the arms.

That's my uneducated opinion, anyway - VKB's engimaneers can pro'ly do better than me with just a napkin and thirty seconds' scribbling time.

DHRF
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Re: A few ideas for a potential Space Throttle

Postby DHRF » Thu Feb 09, 2017 17:54

the modular desing of the trotthle open many options...........cant say more.

but the entire line is modular, you have a joystick base, adapters, grips, desktop system for the base.

Imagine....

and there will be more ptoducts.

Modular line is the key.

DHRF
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Re: A few ideas for a potential Space Throttle

Postby DHRF » Thu Feb 09, 2017 21:22

1 idea
eliminate gl pro, offer upgrade to gl but including the base so there is no cuting

the gunfigter desktop module can also acept the gl upgrade parts (cheaper and whit cheap grip)

so you can buy a destop module whit a cheaper internals,
have adecent Gladiator upgrade path,
have 2 models of desktop module
the modular part of the trothle will be nice if can be remuved (handles and its internals) so you could put a joy in there, and put the trotle part in the desktop module
of course there must have a standar for the atachment of those parts, but that standar will be used on seveeral more products in the future.
since the trotle will be modular the remove of the entire handles and internals will leave room for a joybase, also the destop module could atach the ww2 stile or hotas style trotle handles
plus having the entire trotle handles whit its internals modular, could be used on future trotles tha only have a base diferent

Sokol1
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Re: A few ideas for a potential Space Throttle

Postby Sokol1 » Fri Feb 10, 2017 0:39

My idea. :twisted: :lol:

Sorry by OT. :wink:

RecklessPrudence
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Re: A few ideas for a potential Space Throttle

Postby RecklessPrudence » Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:08

DHRF wrote:*snip*

So basically take a joystick base, remove the grip and gimbal, and click a throttle's internals and handle in? And that way you can get the necessary range of motion that a throttle has in the Y axis, as well as X axis functionality? Sounds good!

And then you can have different grips, all with this functionality, saving money in manufacturing due to parts commonality and allowing you to sell it at a competitive price? Also good.

And that would give you two axes just through moving the handle, and then you could make a grip with one additional axis for anyone with a twist stick, and two for anyone without (maybe the vertical stick ngetal proposed along with some flappy paddles like the recent Thrustmaster TWCS?), to still allow for 6DOF!


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