Question for Star Citizen pilots

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Twist vs. Rudder

Poll ended at Wed May 24, 2017 4:27

I prefer a grip with twist axis for ONE hand (left hand) (please explain use-case)
9
10%
I prefer a grip with twist axis for ONE hand (right hand) (please explain use-case)
14
16%
I prefer two grips with twist axes for BOTH hands (please explain use-case)
23
26%
I prefer a set of rudder pedals and NO twist grips (please explain use-case)
24
27%
I prefer a set of rudder pedals, but still like ONE twist grip as well (please explain use-case)
14
16%
I prefer a set of rudder pedals, but still like TWO twist grips as well (please explain use-case)
6
7%
 
Total votes: 90

nyvn
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Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby nyvn » Sat Mar 18, 2017 18:39

pretagonist wrote:
nyvn wrote:I probably fly one of the less common setups.


I fly the exact same setup in Elite. Although i have a cobra m5 instead of the gladiator. I find it wonderfully intuitive.


For HOSAS it seems that dual T16000Ms are the common setup (probably because they are the undisputed price/performance winner) and most people I know who fly with HOSAS don't use pedals. I think alot of it comes down to price and availability. Most of my org mates budget $150-200 for their control setup and it's hard to get a dual stick setup with everything at that price point.

Silvershade
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Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby Silvershade » Wed Mar 29, 2017 20:21

For me I use a dual joystick setup and pedals in star citizen.. I prefer to not have twist on my right stick as that interferes with my aiming. I like to have twist on my left stick for strafe actions. I am looking forward to your left handed grip and will definately be picking one up as I have already ordered the pedals and gunfighter for my right hand.. Looking forward to the space grip for sure!

tecman69
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6 degrees of freedom require twist

Postby tecman69 » Tue May 02, 2017 17:12

OK, I get the love of pedals instead of twist. I have a set of MFG Crosswinds myself and use the heck out of em in DCS and IL-2. But with any space game that incorporates true 6DoF, twist in stick is a must-have for roll. Personally I use pedals for horiz strafe and toe-brakes for vert strafe, but there are a number of other good options for pedals.

And this is particularly true for SC that already give mousers a head start with their IM aim2fly mechanism. You need every option including a full three DoF control in your hands AND feet. Just my $.02

RangerXML
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Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby RangerXML » Tue May 02, 2017 21:08

My current set up:

Left stick: (Targeting, Afterbunrers, Boost (Trigger), Brakes)
Left/Right - Strafe Right/Left
Fore/Back - Strafe Up/Down
Twist - Roll

Right Stick: (Shooting (Trigger), missiles, chat, etc.)
Left/Right - Yaw
Fore/Back - Pitch
Twist - unassigned

Rudder Peddles
Push forward/back - Strafe forward/backward

Once I get my Gunfighter it will become the right stick and once I get the MCG it goes there and I'll be happy to have a dual stage trigger to easy up on size 3 weapon overheat on SC. I currently use a 3D Pro and will switch the T16000 to my left and I use the twist for roll, but only on the left hand. I also use an a throttle if available so I can have one for long trips.

Image

zenmonkey
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Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby zenmonkey » Sat May 06, 2017 21:37

When th etwist adaptor comes out, I assume it will function as an small extension tube added to he stick. Are there plans for a corresponding passthrough tube someone doens't want twist on both the left and right?

jOKe
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Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby jOKe » Tue May 09, 2017 10:53

I have a rather strange setup it would seem so thought I'd post my feelings about the importance of a twist grip in Star Citizen.

I currently have a HOTAS + Pedals setup (Saitek X-55 with Thrustmaster T-Flight Rudder Pedals). I find that (like many here) using twist for yaw is much more natural in space sims. This means that I use my pedals for strafing - Up and Down on Toe Brakes and left right on the main pedal axis. I found this very natural feeling (despite how odd it sounds) and it provides me the full analog range of 6-DoF that's needed for advanced flight in space sims.

The electronics of my Saitek stick inevitably packed-up after 3 years of use (more than most get out of it) so I'm looking for a new one. I love the hefty feel of the X-55 throttle so plan on keeping that for as long as it's able to hang in there. I really love the look of the VKB Gladiator Pro Mk.II but for now the lack of twist is definitely a dealbreaker.

I really hope VKB release a grip with space-sim pilots in mind, especially us that find it more natural to use twist for yaw. An adapter at the very least would definitely swing me towards buying my next stick from VKB! :)

Keep the conversation flowing, it's interesting to hear all the different setups people have.

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Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby graysson » Tue May 09, 2017 18:49

Depending on the solution for twist i would go for (starting with the most preferred solution):
1. symmetrical dual sticks (left and right hand Kosmosima with twist) + rudder
2. dual sticks (lefthand Kosmosima + MCG Pro with twist adapter) + rudder
3. dual sticks (lefthand Kosmosima + MCG Pro without twist) + rudder

It would be real nice if the twist would be lockable.
The cheapest solution for VKB-Sim would probably be a lefthand Kosmosima grip and a twist adapter for all grips.
I wouldnt mind that the stick becomes a bit taller due to the twist adapter because i use table mounts ( https://www.monstertech.de/en/product-category/table-mounts/ ).

Since im planning to get myself a completely new setup i have some questions that hopefully help me to decide.

Is Windows recognizing all sticks/rudder etc. as one device or as separate ones?
How much devices can be used with one blackbox? Can you use dual sticks or dual sticks + rudder with one blackbox?

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UIV
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Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby UIV » Wed May 10, 2017 2:02

graysson wrote:Is Windows recognizing all sticks/rudder etc. as one device or as separate ones?
How much devices can be used with one blackbox? Can you use dual sticks or dual sticks + rudder with one blackbox?

One Blackbox recognized like one device.
Can, but neet to remember about Windows (DirectX) limitation. Any joystick must have not more than 8 axes. If more, need to use 2 Blackboxes.

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Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby graysson » Wed May 10, 2017 11:46

Thx for the answer.
One last question: What does the bus on the blackbox?
I only found documention to the NJoy32 in Russian and my Russian is a bit rusty after not using it for 20 years.

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Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby UIV » Wed May 10, 2017 12:37

BUS need for connecting different VKB devices to the BlackBox. Now only Gunfighter uses the "bus". Later throttle too.

TOGSolid
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Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby TOGSolid » Sat May 13, 2017 9:16

Having received my Gunfighter, one thing I noticed that could become an issue with the Kosmosima grip is that the cable that connects the Gunfighter to the Blackbox is pretty short. Once the Kosmosima grip is released, a longer connection cable (at least a six foot cable should work fine) would be super appreciated for general wire management purposes as trying to run two Gunfighters into the Blackbox will result in some unsightly wiring as things are right now.

Other than that damn fine work on the Gunfighter and I can't wait to get my hands on the controls y'all have coming up!

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Re: 6 degrees of freedom require twist

Postby Echo1432 » Sat May 13, 2017 10:58

tecman69 wrote:OK, I get the love of pedals instead of twist. I have a set of MFG Crosswinds myself and use the heck out of em in DCS and IL-2. But with any space game that incorporates true 6DoF, twist in stick is a must-have for roll. Personally I use pedals for horiz strafe and toe-brakes for vert strafe, but there are a number of other good options for pedals.

And this is particularly true for SC that already give mousers a head start with their IM aim2fly mechanism. You need every option including a full three DoF control in your hands AND feet. Just my $.02


interesting that twist is MUST-HAVE for roll...

Paidin
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Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby Paidin » Sat May 13, 2017 17:23

I haven't found this to be the case personally. I used to fly with a T16k and used the twist for roll, but now that I'm rocking the Gunfighter & TFRP / TWCS (Better as a pair, the default converter box is very fickle and stops working frequently) and don't have any trouble rolling to my desired direction. The throttle additionally includes an analog flipper and mini-stick that can be used for straffing and rolling if so desired. Not being an ace pilot most my navigation problems are user error rather than mechanical at this point. The roll on pedals works well enough for me. Someday I'd like to upgrade to a VKB pedal / throttle set but for now it works and my money is better spent on a replacement grip for the admittedly fun (but button lacking) KG12 grip.

On the space-sim grip front, has there been any recent discussion as to the possibility of making the left hand stick ambidextrous like the t16k or has it been officially decreed to be a left handed only stick? It's pretty ingenious the way thrustmaster accomplishes this switch with just a quick swap out of rubber inserts included with the base package. I only ask because I'm unsure if I should by the MCG or wait for the space sim grim for my right handed Gunfighter.

Thanks for reading.

CorranFel
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Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby CorranFel » Thu May 18, 2017 20:13

I use two sticks each with a twist, and no pedals. Yaw, pitch, and roll bound to right stick, left stick has forward/backward strafe on the y axis, left/right strafe on the y axis, and up/down strafe on roll axis. There are absolutely no precision issues from using twist as opposed to pedals, and really it doesn't matter which axis is bound where, it's about sticking with whatever you choose and the rest is muscle memory. Definitely an advocate for dual sticks with twist axis!

TOGSolid
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Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby TOGSolid » Fri May 19, 2017 2:50

A thought just occurred to me that on a left hand space sim stick there really is no need for a regular ole trigger so a good thing to put there may be a paddle like the rudder pedal the Thrustmaster FCS Throttle has only mounted vertically instead of horizontally. Alternatively, you could use two triggers (kinda like the ones you see on XBOX controllers that are capable of proper throttling) to do the same thing only low profile and easily accessible. Then you would have each axis oriented in a logical direction. Forward and reverse thrust would be your Y Axis, the X axis would cover left and right strafing, and then with this third, vertically mounted axis, you would have a very logical and intuitive to use up and down strafing axis.

If a twist axis is added then pilots without rudders would be able to use it for rolling with everything staying very logical and easy to understand as to what does what, but I don't feel strongly one way or the other about the inclusion of a twist axis.


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