Question for Star Citizen pilots

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Twist vs. Rudder

Poll ended at Wed May 24, 2017 4:27

I prefer a grip with twist axis for ONE hand (left hand) (please explain use-case)
9
10%
I prefer a grip with twist axis for ONE hand (right hand) (please explain use-case)
14
16%
I prefer two grips with twist axes for BOTH hands (please explain use-case)
23
26%
I prefer a set of rudder pedals and NO twist grips (please explain use-case)
24
27%
I prefer a set of rudder pedals, but still like ONE twist grip as well (please explain use-case)
14
16%
I prefer a set of rudder pedals, but still like TWO twist grips as well (please explain use-case)
6
7%
 
Total votes: 90

marcusstratus
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Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby marcusstratus » Fri May 19, 2017 4:31

TOGSolid wrote:A thought just occurred to me... etc. etc. etc... the inclusion of a twist axis.


I really like this suggestion, in fact, my favorites on this thread are ones that add different functionality to the left hand grip (such as your double ended trigger, or the throttle rotary or making the stick act like a cross between a stick and throttle (which the Gunfighter should be able to do given it's clutch and cam system) The thing is, why make a second, different grip if you're not going to add different types of controls to it? If you're going to make a grip that's left handed but with your regular ole hats and triggers, VKB might as well make their MCG in a left handed grip. So I look forward to seeing what the SCG turns out like!

Goloith
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Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby Goloith » Wed May 31, 2017 20:07

Just to re-iterate, if VKB is going to add twist it needs to be very high quality and much better than what is on the VKB Gladiator II (non-Pro). The twist is so imprecise/unresponsive on the Gladiator II my $19.99 Logitech 3D pro is better than it.

Anyways, bought my Gunfighter and my Gunfighter base (for left-handed space sim grip), but VKB has to absolutely knock the twist precision out of the park with an adapter or on the space sim grip.

RangerXML
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Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby RangerXML » Wed May 31, 2017 20:45

I agree, the twist on my Logitech 3D Pro even feels better then on the T16000m TWCS version which is suppose to be higher quality then the original, but somehow feels like I'm gonna break it. Even if I only use a twist in my off hand, having something that feels imprecise or unreliable adds a hesitation to full torque it which means not keeping up with my target. I'm here bringing the TM T16000m full to one side and there is still flew that feels like it could just pop.

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Plexus
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Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby Plexus » Wed Jun 07, 2017 15:35

Hi there...

with growing experience I am thinking about moving from my Saitek x52 HOTAS to a 2 stick system as I start to use throttle very sparsely but the hat for strafing very often.

I am aiming to have a twistable MCG Pro Grip mounted onto a Gunfighter Base for my right hand using for pitch, yaw, roll, flightmodes, strafing (up/down), aiming, weapons, flares and shields.
For my left hand a non twistable Gladiator Pro Mk.II Base with a mirrored KG12 Grip would be the perfect match. The first pictures of the Kosmosima makes me estimate having too many buttons in the stick itself for my personal favour. This stick and its buttons would be for strafing (left-right-forward-backwards), afterburner and rough speed. The trottle and those several buttons in the base are ideal for non-timesensitive inputs like accurate speed, landing gear, quantum aim/drive, ...

Greetz,
Plex

ActionBowman
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Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby ActionBowman » Sat Jun 10, 2017 13:59

rrohde wrote:If so, why? If not, why?


- I run with left twist as up/down translation and right twist as roll.
- I prefer to use pedals for roll but would like to be able to transition to standing if necessary so having the extra axis on the joystick is nice. I sympathize with those who dislike axis bleed but it's better to avoid losing an analog axis of control while standing.
- Consider me a +1 for left handed stick availability, there is a hole in the market for multi-button / modifier button lefty sticks, especially one with an analog thumb-stick on it

Istaf
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Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby Istaf » Fri Jul 21, 2017 17:04

Very late reply but just found this.

I've been in the market for a good stick for SC over the last few years. Sadly nobody makes what I require.

Smooth gimbals are very important because aim is so important and difficult. Without a smooth, light gimbal aiming is very difficult

A good amount of buttons (three hats, dual stage trigger and a pinky trigger) is very important because you need way to go through you ships systems (hat 1) combat targeting (hat 2, target nearest, target reticle and cycle forward and back) and non combat targeting (hat 3, target landing pad forward and back, cycle all targets forward and back). Dual stage trigger for different weapon groups (the Cobra M5 has perfect design because you can choose to fire group 1 or 2 or both independently unlike the warthog design where you can fire group 1 or both). Pinky trigger makes a great option for more weapon groups however I really like it as a hold to disable G-safe. You also need a side button as a modifier and at least two buttons for missiles (one for lock on, one for firing.

The most important thing for me personally however is a twist axis. I've avoided the warthog and many VKB sticks solely because they lack a twist axis. The lack of a twist axis is a instant ignore for me.

Amendus
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Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby Amendus » Thu Aug 31, 2017 16:36

The most important aspect for me is a twist axis and two identical joysticks.

I can't stand asymmetrical sticks. I want to use rudder or gas pedals for acceleration, deceleration (and if there is a 3rd pedal decoupling).

I will probably not use the twist axis on the left stick, but with the additional dimensions in space, I think a twist axis is a great add-on for a space sim stick.

NemeSys4565
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Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby NemeSys4565 » Thu Nov 02, 2017 23:42

While I am very interested in Star Citizen, I want to keep my configuration flexible for other games; FPS in SC and others, versatile vehicle controls for Arma and maybe DCS in the future, etc. My current experiment/build/setup is below.

Wheel Stand Pro Warthog Deluxe V2

- Right pole/pedestal: Logitech G903 mouse, X-keys XK-24 keypad, oversized rigid mousepad

- Center pole/pedestal (currently): VKB Gladiator Mk II (KG12), modified QuickShot Master Pilot MFD console

- Left pole/pedestal: Logitech G13 gamepad, 3DConnexion SpaceNavigator (notebook model)

- Floor plate: MFG Crosswind pedals

I'm currently waiting on a Gunfighter Pro ‘Modern Combat Edition’ set (preorder Dec 2017) to replace the Gladiator, and I expect to get either the "modern" or "space" throttle when it becomes available. I hope to fabricate a new left hand split level pedestal that will allow for the VKB throttle and the G13/3DC to be equally accessible, but I have to wait to see specs on the throttle (I might not need the G13, but the 3DC is small and great for uncoupled). I will also probably grab the VKB twist adapter when it comes out (I'm glad they're going with an "please everybody" adapter), but I don't plan to have an entire second stick just for SC.

As far as inputs/axis etc, I tend to try for a configuration that remains fairly standard across games so I'll usually stick with pitch and roll on the right hand, yaw on the pedals, a throttle/translationals on the left side, and my 3dof EDTracker for "looking around".

The twist adapter will be "just because" gravy. :)

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Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby StarLordRick » Mon Nov 27, 2017 21:48

Hell yeah twist adapter confirmed! This is going to make sc so much easier to fly. I haven't tried dual stick or twist stick but would it be better for just off hand or dual twist?

hon0
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Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby hon0 » Mon Nov 27, 2017 22:29

Basically, the goal is to have 6 analog axis to control all 6DOF in the game. So if you don't have rudder/pedal, Two 3 axis (X+Y+twist=Z) are required. If you have rudder/pedals then you can diminue the workload of one of your hand by using it, you should also win in accuracy as MOST twist axis are using low resolution sensor. Long time twist isn't really comfortable too.. And using twist generally diminue the accuracy you can achieve on the two other axis of the stick.

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Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby StarLordRick » Tue Nov 28, 2017 7:49

I do have MFG crosswinds. So. Maybe just using my left hand with twist to control up and down would work best

marcusstratus
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Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby marcusstratus » Tue Nov 28, 2017 18:40

Twist was great in Elite:Dangerous because of the nerfed Yaw, but for Star Citizen I think using only two axis (pitch and yaw) on right hand is best for accuracy and roll on pedals. Some people would switch roll/yaw. But what I'm keen to try when I get a set of pedals is whether or not I like vertical translation on the toe brake axis. Have any of you tried Roll and vertical movement on pedals? How was it compared to vertical movement on stick/buttons?

StarLordRick
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Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby StarLordRick » Thu Nov 30, 2017 5:27

i have tested this in the past. and everything has a learning curve. Im waiting for 3.0 and see how ill like my controls on planets. But i personally hate using toe brakes for anything but brakes.I also have used a space mouse on my left hand which is really cool but id rather have a stick to grab on to

00prometheus
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Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby 00prometheus » Sun Dec 17, 2017 21:15

I just wanted to add that analogue mini-sticks are really important regardless of twist vs pedals.

Though there are only six DoF, some axis (like thrust), also need absolute vs relative positioning; i.e. strafe forward/backward vs thrust up/down. Then there are things like independent aim of gimbal guns, and a dedicated analogue view change stick. So make sure there still are several mini-sticks on a two-joystick Star Citizen setup! It wouldn't hurt to also add an analogue mouse-wheel type control or two as well, preferably without 'clicks', but with enough sticktionless friction to be easy to control and to stay where you set them.

azmodiuz
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Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby azmodiuz » Sat Mar 10, 2018 7:49

man this twist adapter can not come soon enough.

If any other company comes out with a viable high quality gimbals and stick and twist I would abandon VKB in an instant , so sick of waiting for this shit.


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