Question for Star Citizen pilots

Moderator: AdminGroup

Twist vs. Rudder

Poll ended at Wed May 24, 2017 4:27

I prefer a grip with twist axis for ONE hand (left hand) (please explain use-case)
9
10%
I prefer a grip with twist axis for ONE hand (right hand) (please explain use-case)
14
16%
I prefer two grips with twist axes for BOTH hands (please explain use-case)
23
26%
I prefer a set of rudder pedals and NO twist grips (please explain use-case)
24
27%
I prefer a set of rudder pedals, but still like ONE twist grip as well (please explain use-case)
14
16%
I prefer a set of rudder pedals, but still like TWO twist grips as well (please explain use-case)
6
7%
 
Total votes: 90

HaArLiNsH
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 14:08
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby HaArLiNsH » Tue Jan 24, 2017 17:40

My dream setup for star citizen :

right hand joystick :
-2 axis : pitch and yaw
- lots of buttons/switches/hat like modern grip (F-22/35,T-50, you name it)
- analogue brake/pinky

left hand joystick:
-2 axis : front/back translation and left/right translation
- lots of buttons/switches/hat like modern grip
- 1 throttle axis in form of a thumb slider in place of one of the top hat/button or at the thumb button, or a rotational potentiometer at the thumb button, or something even more ergonomic but you get the idea : a "light" throttle axis for the left hand joystick
- analogue brake/pinky

rudder pedals:
- 3axis :
- rudder : roll
- left toe : down translation
- right toe : up translation

nrage147
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 14:51
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby nrage147 » Tue Jan 24, 2017 17:54

Caillin wrote:I might get off my ass and shoot a quick video of using the T16k in action in Elite (lots of rolling required due to restricted Yaw rates) to a) show how easy it is to fly a twist joystick with zero z-axis bleed, and b) show how accurate it's possible to be when incorporating twist and pitch to roll into and up to your target seamlessly.

The restricted yaw rate in Elite makes it different to SC in an interesting way. I don't see a lot of point (for Elite) in putting the yaw on a "full" axis (X/Y) of a stick which is why I have it on the twist. The same is not true in SC where there is no yaw speed reduction and I think its common to have yaw on the Y axis and roll on twist. It's also the default config for SC, I believe, the first time I tried to pilot a ship in SC I didn't realise this and for a good 5 minutes I could not figure out what was going on :P

pretagonist wrote:I don't have any real use for the twist on the left stick. But I must strongly disagree with above posters regarding the twist resistance. The power available in your hand for that twist motion is a lot less than for the other axis, using too much power to twist will "lock-up" your hand preventing smooth control of the other axis as well as introducing fatigue. The twist on my cobra is very loose and that works fine for me. If I experience bleed I just up the deadzone a bit. I have also read about people with joint and muscle issues that get a lot of pain from heavy twists.

I have a Cobra as well but just upgraded from it to the Gladiator. The Gladiator has a heavier twist but I don't experience any fatigue using it. What I did notice is more haptic feedback from the Gladiator, I think the Cobra is "too light". The same cannot be said for my old X-55, the twist wasn't exactly heavy but the stick ergonomics were so bad that it was harder to hold/control and this made it far more fatiguing to use. The Gladiator wins hands down here.
Last edited by nrage147 on Tue Jan 24, 2017 18:19, edited 1 time in total.

nrage147
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 14:51
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby nrage147 » Tue Jan 24, 2017 18:00

Macross wrote:But what i know, i dont care much twist on stick, to work well, it needs quite alot deadzone and that kills precision on twist.

Why the large deadzone?

I have the VKB Gladiator non-pro and when I was setting my deadzones I reduced them to the minimum that the hardware would support, that is to say that I increased the deadzone until letting go of the stick from a range of positions all centered correctly. The hardware in the Gladiator has more of a centering issue on the twist than the other axis, so this deadzone is actually larger.

But.. I have a feeling you would increase the deadzone further? Is it to reduce accidental input?

If so.. I have no issue with this and the Gladiator. I used to have a Cobra Defender M5 which is soo light that I did occasionally add unwanted yaw, and perhaps this stick has trained me to be a bit less violent with my inputs, but I can really feel when I apply twist with the gladiator and it resists enough that I never do this by accident.

It might help that a little input is killed by my current deadzone.

It might also help that Elite Dangerous has reduced yaw input so even if I add a little more than the deadzone it's not noticeable - more precision is probably required in a flight sim.

nrage147
Posts: 17
Joined: Tue Aug 23, 2016 14:51
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby nrage147 » Tue Jan 24, 2017 18:21

Not sure if "TheNOOBIFIER1337" has an account here or will see this thread so I'll suggest his series of videos for some idea what some dual stick SC players use:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=P ... rE-Xu2UmpH

He actually has a custom made left hand stick, see:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8YxA2tSLYE

KallenStadtfeld_SC
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 18:19
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 9 times

Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby KallenStadtfeld_SC » Tue Jan 24, 2017 18:44

Caillin wrote:Have you had an opportunity to use a stick with twist for any extended period of time? Something like the T16k takes a very concerted effort to actually twist.


I have tried a couple, though nothing new or high end. I know I can unmap twist as an input, but my concern was that if I twisted my hand by accident, that the motion itself would lead me to pushing the stick sideways and decrease the precision of what I was actually trying to do. I wish twist could just be a separate adapter, though I mentioned previously that I'd be okay with a mechanism that can securely lock the twist function without any wobbling or play. Just with pedals and two sticks, the comfortable flying setup for me has no need for twist and I don't want an unnecessary function causing potential issues.

Macross
Posts: 16
Joined: Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:58
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby Macross » Tue Jan 24, 2017 19:14

nimrod77 wrote:I use dual stick with pedals. I explain my setup here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZIe6QATqRfs&t=44s

I would like twist on my LH stick for Vertical strafe.

Ultimate LH stick would be something like this IMO. Cross between a throttle and a stick. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qyN_e8u3dE0
Even better if the fwd half of the Y axis could be set and not centre, but would centre from backwards on Y.
Thanks VKB


Like this?
Image

Got full ch hotas and t16000, going to make this mod someday..
2axis on stick +ch throttle mini joystick..

Ps: this kind of throttle from vkb, would buy in a heartbeat ;)

shere
Posts: 2
Joined: Sun Nov 27, 2016 23:20
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby shere » Tue Jan 24, 2017 20:15

it's a really handy mod. here's mine (although a bit more extensive): Image
got X, Y, twist AND rudder rocker to pick from, as well as a slider, two thumbsticks and a rotary.
construction gallery 1 http://imgur.com/a/8VdkW and 2 http://imgur.com/a/kvJiR

Andy L
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2015 1:20
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby Andy L » Tue Jan 24, 2017 20:35

I fly twin sticks in Space Sims with an analogue thumb wheel for vertical strafe on my left thumb.

Image

My ergonomics aren't very good because of what I had available but something like this in a natural position would be great.

vanov
Posts: 11
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 21:44
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 4 times

Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby vanov » Tue Jan 24, 2017 21:48

Dual stick, twist on both. I play at a standup desk, pedals are not an option for me.

HaArLiNsH
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Dec 30, 2016 14:08
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby HaArLiNsH » Tue Jan 24, 2017 22:00

Andy L wrote:I fly twin sticks in Space Sims with an analogue thumb wheel for vertical strafe on my left thumb.

Image

My ergonomics aren't very good because of what I had available but something like this in a natural position would be great.


THIS is exactly the kind of left handed grip I'm talking about (except the fact it need more ergonomic study :wink: ) but with a slider instead so you can use it as a throttle

Andy L
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2015 1:20
Has thanked: 3 times
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby Andy L » Tue Jan 24, 2017 23:42

I'd just like to say with the ergonomics I didn't mean that this is a bad design. Just that the physical bulk of the mount that I used is too big so the wheel is slightly too far away from the body of the stick and the bulky mount slightly interferes with the thumb button. If it were to be molded into the body of the stick in the same place it would fit naturally where your thumb would want to be. It may need to replace the thumb button rather than being in addition to it. In Star Citizen it gives excellent control, only let down by the slightly imprecise CH gimbal.

denonsix
Posts: 12
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 23:46
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby denonsix » Tue Jan 24, 2017 23:52

I prefer pedals and at least ONE twist grip and here's why.

I use VKB T-Rudders which only have 1 axis.

The x and y on each stick provide 4 axis.
The T-Rudder's provide 1 axis.
We need 1 more for 6dof.

Without twist, and if I want to use pedals, for 6dof I HAVE to switch to pedals that have 2 axis they are capable of (forward/back and toe brakes).
I must prefer to use my T-Rudder's as they are much for practical for space-sims in my opinion compared to the forward/back motion of competitor pedals.

Having at least ONE stick with twist fits best with your other products to provide 6 degrees of freedom.

Varun45
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Jan 24, 2017 23:28
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 2 times

Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby Varun45 » Tue Jan 24, 2017 23:55

Macross wrote:
Like this?
Image

Got full ch hotas and t16000, going to make this mod someday..
2axis on stick +ch throttle mini joystick..

Ps: this kind of throttle from vkb, would buy in a heartbeat ;)


Hey, that's me! It's still working great after almost a year. Not sure if they ever would ever design one, though I think it's a great configuration for a left handed space sim controller. I did ask rrohde, via reddit, if the future VKB throttle would use the same connector as the stick grips, in which case we might be able to create a VKB throttle stick, but there's no info on that so far. I would definitely buy then as well.

Echo1432
Posts: 12
Joined: Wed Jan 25, 2017 0:18
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby Echo1432 » Wed Jan 25, 2017 0:23

I prefer twist on left hand only, I could do with no twist at all but I like it in star citizen so I strafe up and down with an analog axis.

Sokol1
Posts: 186
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 20:07
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 89 times

Re: Question for Star Citizen pilots

Postby Sokol1 » Wed Jan 25, 2017 1:08

Strange, people who vote and explain prefer "twist", but the pool show more votes for "non twist" option.

Perhaps non "Kosmosimov" players are voting, scared that their dream stick be spoiled with twist. :mrgreen:

As I have 0 interest in Kosmosimov (and Star War movies :lol: ), I absent to vote. :wink:


Return to “General discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests