VKB Throttle

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yojimbosc
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Re: VKB Throttle

Postby yojimbosc » Thu Sep 08, 2016 14:36

so it is confirmed, when can we preorder :lol:

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UIV
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Re: VKB Throttle

Postby UIV » Thu Sep 08, 2016 14:47

Please wait for announcement from Jason

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Re: VKB Throttle

Postby Caillin » Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:09

Might just hold off on that TWCS Throttle :) Thanks for the update Ilya.

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Re: VKB Throttle

Postby Caillin » Sat Sep 10, 2016 2:54

*pumps brakes on hype train*

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Re: VKB Throttle

Postby Bourrinopathe » Sat Sep 10, 2016 5:48

*hype train derails suddenly due to excessive speed and is now desperately waiting for repairs and engine upgrade*
/// ВКБ Black Mamba MkIII / ВКБ T-Rudder MkII / ВКБ Gladiator / X-55 Rhino throttle / OpenTrack /// UTC +4 ///

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Re: VKB Throttle

Postby DawnWing » Sat Sep 10, 2016 11:24

Trustmaster sold complete set of racing sim hardware, but they didn't do it for the PCFS, it's unfair for the consumer.
I think I need a identical outward appearance hardware for the sim.
I don't like to buy a A brand throttle, B brand pedal, C brand stick and D brand grip to finish a unique set...
(So the Logitech G940 is always a legend!)
TM doesn't make pedal(well, their new pedal is coordinated with TF hotas 4...),
corsswind only have pedal, and saitek, their grip always looks a little weird to me.
Hope you guys could finished the throttle ASAP, to help us have a dreaming hardware.

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Re: VKB Throttle

Postby rrohde » Mon Sep 12, 2016 21:38

DawnWing wrote:I don't like to buy a A brand throttle, B brand pedal, C brand stick and D brand grip to finish a unique set...


Well, that's sadly the reality for us flight simmers ... you gotta pick and choose from different (niche) manufacturers to get a quality setup these days.

Would be nice if VKB would make a modern-style split throttle with plenty of buttons, switches, and dials to accommodate the upcoming Gunfighter stick; even nicer if both could be released around the same time and be sold as a kit or individually! :)
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Re: VKB Throttle

Postby RecklessPrudence » Tue Sep 13, 2016 17:01

The Thrustmaster Cougar's throttle was pretty good, I heard - and it was based on an F-16's. The jet grip I've heard bandied around for the Gunfighter is the Su-35's, which to my (limited) knowledge is identical to the Su-25 & -47, as well as the PAK FA/eventual T-50. Makes sense, as they're all Sukhoi products. The throttle for them is on the right, in this image. Another view here.

Over in Yankland, the F-22's throttle looks like this, while the F-35's looks like this (another view here). If we go to France, the Rafale's throttle looks like this, while in Sweden the Gripen's looks like this. And finally, a Eurofighter Typhoon's throttle looks like this.

Lot of different ways to do things, but as far as I can see, they all have an analog ministick at the thumb(if that's a mini-stick on the Sukhoi throttle, and not just an especially robust hat), and when you look at the latest American offers, you can see they've gone all-in on hats, while the F-35 even has a scrollwheel on their throttle, like my old (broken) Saitek X-52 Pro. In fact, the X-52 Pro's throttle seems to heavily resemble the F-35's throttle, if missing a few features and with no ministick (just a useless mouse nub). The Typhoon seems to add a few more ministicks - or eight-way hats, I'm not sure, while they all have quite a few buttons and other ways to interact. The Su-35 design seems to have the least buttons aside from maybe the Gripen, which makes sense, as the Su-25 that it inherited it from is the oldest plane on this list, apart from the F-16 that just edges it out. Newer interfaces seem to generally equal more things on the HOTAS, rather than elsewhere in the cockpit, reducing user load.

While you don't want to overload the user, more interface methods are almost always good on a HOTAS - ideally I don't want to be using my keyboard for anything but chatting to other players, or something else that requires the alphabet, rather than purposed buttons. Hell, the scrollwheel on my old x52 Pro I used for component selection in any number of space games, letting me target the exact turret or drive system or shield emitter I wanted. Was a lot faster than using buttons to go down the list.

While I really like the Sukhoi joystick they seem to have been using since the '70s, I'll admit to being less enthused about their throttle. Doesn't seem to have the number of buttons I'd like. I don't mind most of the others, but I think the F-35, while weird-looking, has a good number of interface options, what with the ministick and all those hats and the scrollwheel. The F-22 omits the scrollwheel, as far as I can see, but compensates with MOAR HATS. The Gripen seems to be a bit barebones, unless there's more we can't see from that angle. The Rafale looks kinda more like a chunky joystick, but seems to have a plethora of buttons and hats and stuff. The Typhoon... I'm not sure what to think of the Typhoon - I'd like some more angles on it, before I decide how I feel about it.

Just some thoughts from Australia at midnight. I'd love VKB to put out something great that I can buy to go with my Gunfighter, once I get it - for now I'll be using a CH Pro Throttle with my Defender Cobra M5, but I'd love an excuse to upgrade.

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Re: VKB Throttle

Postby Kunz » Tue Sep 13, 2016 20:24

RecklessPrudence wrote:The jet grip I've heard bandied around for the Gunfighter is the Su-35's, which to my (limited) knowledge is identical to the Su-25 & -47, as well as the PAK FA/eventual T-50. Makes sense, as they're all Sukhoi products. The throttle for them is on the right, in this image. Another view here.


Uhhh? Throttle is always on the left. See here. What made you say it's on the right? Those images you posted?
Image

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Re: VKB Throttle

Postby RecklessPrudence » Wed Sep 14, 2016 2:57

Kunz wrote:Uhhh? Throttle is always on the left. See here. What made you say it's on the right? Those images you posted?

The image was just a joystick and throttle floating in space, with the joystick on the left and the throttle on the right. I was referring to their placement in that image, rather than their placement in a cockpit. EDIT: Although I definitely could have worded it better.

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Re: VKB Throttle

Postby Bourrinopathe » Wed Sep 14, 2016 8:59

I'm very curious about the future throttles ergonomics (VKB and others). In the modern aircraft, a throttle regroups a very specific set of controls designed for a specific aircraft.
Even if most of the current flight/space simulations offer several similar controls and functions, it's always a challenge to design such a control device for different users.
Thrustmaster took the easy route by copying most of the F/A-18E throttle design for their upcoming (cheap) TWCS, and at least Saitek/Mad Catz has always tried to pull their own design (despite some obvious flaws).
Imho, the Su-35 throttle has some significant limitations when it comes to versatility and modern ergonomics.
As suggested in other places and forums, the mini-stick should be under the thumb. The reason is that the thumb will beat the index in a directional and overall dexterity contest. It's also the only finger that will not impair your grip while trying to manipulate a tiny hat/mini-stick.
Of course, it's always debatable.

I tend to like the Rafale approach, and with some adjustments, it will even be possible to use an asymmetrical thrust control with that single throttle-stick design.
Now, I'm not sure the public/users are that open to very innovative designs and it's also probably a limiting factor if you want to sell a product.

One thing for sure: I can't find any satisfying throttle on the market right now. :|
/// ВКБ Black Mamba MkIII / ВКБ T-Rudder MkII / ВКБ Gladiator / X-55 Rhino throttle / OpenTrack /// UTC +4 ///

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Re: VKB Throttle

Postby Caillin » Wed Sep 14, 2016 9:16

I thought that too (using thumb instead of finger for ministick), however thinking about it more, using your index finger like the new TM throttle would free the thumb up for accessing all your hats.

Will be good to see some reviews when they're released to see how well index finger heave/sway works in practice.

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Re: VKB Throttle

Postby Bourrinopathe » Wed Sep 14, 2016 9:28

Indeed. It really depends on the different controls you would need simultaneously. And with all these hats depending on the thumb, it's probably better to have the mini-stick on less-busy finger :) That's one of the reasons why I prefer my thrusters controls under my right thumb (space sim in mind) (the slew control/TDC does not need such permanent attention).
/// ВКБ Black Mamba MkIII / ВКБ T-Rudder MkII / ВКБ Gladiator / X-55 Rhino throttle / OpenTrack /// UTC +4 ///

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Re: VKB Throttle

Postby Caillin » Wed Sep 14, 2016 9:31

I definitely prefer thumb for control. I'm currently using a Razer Orbweaver for left hand duties, and use the thumb d-pad for lateral thrusters, and it gets a lot of work. However, most of my other activation keys are under the fingers, whereas on a throttle, most of the functions are on hats in the thumb area.

I'm hesitant to move to a throttle from the Orbweaver, but analogue axii would be very nice, as well as the possibility for cockpit mounting in the future.

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Re: VKB Throttle

Postby Bourrinopathe » Wed Sep 14, 2016 10:10

That's interesting as I also used the Orbweaver (with Elite Dangerous), but I used the D-pad for the energy macros. It was really comfortable and using a X-55 throttle (primarily purchased for DCS) did not improve the controls that much.
Thanks to the great controls settings in ED it's been easy to assign the zero-thrust and "blue zone" with some modifiers on the keys I used for the forward/reverse thrust on the Orbweaver.
Twenty mechanical keys available is hard to beat, even if being able to control the main thrust more comfortably with a throttle axis is interesting.
One advantage for a throttle is that the controls are more identifiable because of their specific position, size, shape and actuation type.

That's one thing I like with the Typhoon and Rafale throttles as they have some controls with the fingers extended (using the secondary part of the throttle in the Rafale).
/// ВКБ Black Mamba MkIII / ВКБ T-Rudder MkII / ВКБ Gladiator / X-55 Rhino throttle / OpenTrack /// UTC +4 ///


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