Gladiator Discussion

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Caillin
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Gladiator Discussion

Postby Caillin » Mon Oct 26, 2015 6:11

I'd love to get a discussion going around the Gladiator.

The concept looks great, and I think this could be a real good option for those of us that really want rudder on twist for space sims.

I have one question though that doesn't seem to be answered anywhere that I can find. What is the gimbal mechanism on the Gladiator? I know the Gunfighter will be using a cam-type metal gimbal of undisclosed specs (likely very good!), but there hasn't been any talk on the gimbal mech on the entry level variants. Is it safe to assume that this is a similar design to the original Defender Cobra? So light throw with slight center detente when crossing axii? Or have VKB designed a whole new inexpensive gimbal for this joystick?

I appreciate that this stuff is commercially sensitive at this point, but a vague indication would be great, as I'm sure there'd be a lot of interest in this setup with the Defender/Mamba grip in the Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous community.

Cheers.

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Re: Gladiator Discussion

Postby Caillin » Mon Oct 26, 2015 23:22

Sounds like it should be pretty good. Can't wait to get more details. Can you tell us whether we can order an additional defender/mamba SU style grip for it?

stog
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Re: Gladiator Discussion

Postby stog » Tue Nov 17, 2015 0:21

Will it be possible to get the metal gimble with twist rudder?

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UIV
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Re: Gladiator Discussion

Postby UIV » Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:08

stog wrote:Will it be possible to get the metal gimble with twist rudder?

No.

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Re: Gladiator Discussion

Postby Caillin » Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:47

Just curious UIV. I've been following long enough to know that metal gimbal + twist is an oft requested, yet firmly rejected proposition for VKB. Is this due to engineering concerns/complexity, or purely a marketing approach for the product. For example, high end gimbal is seen as product that would only be used by advanced users that already have or would purchase separate pedals, vs entry level Gladiator product where you're trying to roll in the rudder functionality for a lower price?

I know you guys are quite often asked about adding twist functionality to the metal gimbal product and I can tell it is quite annoying for you guys. I just would like to explain that the likely reason for volume of requests is the advent of the resurgence of the space combat simulation (Elite Dangerous & Star Citizen most notably). For these simulations, yaw control on X-Axis and twist for roll is very natural and normal for most people, and this would explain why a lot of us are chasing the holy grail of a good high-end metal gimbal joystick with included high end (MARS sensor) twist axis capability. A proportion of these users would also already have pedals, but would still find twist useful as an additional axis, as you can very much make use of 6 DOF in a space simulation.

I fully understand that the current range of products are developed first and foremost for the very Russian centered WW2 combat pilot simulation market, I'm just trying to help explain why you would be getting a lot more interest from Western markets with $$ to spend over the last couple of years. Also, the continued interest for a twist axis on your high end gimbal base.

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Re: Gladiator Discussion

Postby DHRF » Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:14

Caillin wrote:Just curious UIV. I've been following long enough to know that metal gimbal + twist is an oft requested, yet firmly rejected proposition for VKB. Is this due to engineering concerns/complexity, or purely a marketing approach for the product. For example, high end gimbal is seen as product that would only be used by advanced users that already have or would purchase separate pedals, vs entry level Gladiator product where you're trying to roll in the rudder functionality for a lower price?

I know you guys are quite often asked about adding twist functionality to the metal gimbal product and I can tell it is quite annoying for you guys. I just would like to explain that the likely reason for volume of requests is the advent of the resurgence of the space combat simulation (Elite Dangerous & Star Citizen most notably). For these simulations, yaw control on X-Axis and twist for roll is very natural and normal for most people, and this would explain why a lot of us are chasing the holy grail of a good high-end metal gimbal joystick with included high end (MARS sensor) twist axis capability. A proportion of these users would also already have pedals, but would still find twist useful as an additional axis, as you can very much make use of 6 DOF in a space simulation.

I fully understand that the current range of products are developed first and foremost for the very Russian centered WW2 combat pilot simulation market, I'm just trying to help explain why you would be getting a lot more interest from Western markets with $$ to spend over the last couple of years. Also, the continued interest for a twist axis on your high end gimbal base.



great Feedback, you make you point very clear, I have talk/discus/recommend designs and many other VKB things that I have on the table, to the point of make UIV crazy :mrgreen: I think they have so many things now (like hit other market segments) that they respond NO by default, but one thing that define them is modular-upgrades-parts, I think they will be more open to the market needs (dcs users will need more than gunfighter default stick...) in the near future.
But that does not mean we stop ask/reclaim/critic :mrgreen:

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Re: Gladiator Discussion

Postby Caillin » Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:17

It's also worth saying, that if the gimbal sucks, then the rest of the features of the stick are completely worthless. VKB have focussed on the most important thing first, the gimbal, and are well positioned to provide modular upgrades like you said when manufacturing capacity/resources allow them. I still hold out hope that in the future there will be a twist axis option for the metal gimbal VKB products.

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Re: Gladiator Discussion

Postby DHRF » Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:13

If the sticks can be changed whit an adaptor, they could put the twist using a similar approach :roll:

have some faith...and patience :wink:

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Re: Gladiator Discussion

Postby DHRF » Fri Nov 20, 2015 9:45

UIV wrote:
stog wrote:Will it be possible to get the metal gimble with twist rudder?

No.


How about implementing the twist using an small extencion whit the sensor there?

Can be used in the entire line that support extencion/adapters.

Is not the perfect solution but will provide the people whit an option.

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Re: Gladiator Discussion

Postby PatMan33 » Fri Dec 11, 2015 20:34

I'm curious about the buttons on the Gladiator models. They look like simple plastic buttons. Are they toggles? Switches? Is there more info out yet?

Will there be problems with their reliability down the line as the device ages?

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Re: Gladiator Discussion

Postby DHRF » Sat Dec 12, 2015 21:35

PatMan33 wrote:I'm curious about the buttons on the Gladiator models. They look like simple plastic buttons. Are they toggles? Switches? Is there more info out yet?

Will there be problems with their reliability down the line as the device ages?



http://dhrf01.wix.com/vkb-com-ar#!gladiator/oxhl6

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Re: Gladiator Discussion

Postby PatMan33 » Sun Dec 13, 2015 10:06

DHRF, thank you very much for the link with supplementary information! I appreciate it. :)

I love the split-throttle design. And I am curious about the throttle and stick sections. There seems to be a seam. Do we know if they separate or is that seam an artifact of the molding/manufacturing process?

Either way, you've given me more confidence in the Gladiator Pro Plus model. Maybe I'll pick that one up and wait for a second generation version of the Gunfighter system. Anyone have any thoughts?

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Re: Gladiator Discussion

Postby DHRF » Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:39

you could start small and grow.......

That is the plan.

Still much final info is not available, a entire line sharing sticks, gimbals, make things a little more complex and some final touches are be needed.

The ideal will be to buy cheap, and later upgrade components (add metal gimbal, use different sticks), rudders,

throttleS, switch panels are planed

Remember that the pro models or the ones whit metal gimbal do not have twist axis adaptor.(F now)


I flight arcade very much, and is a torture to use fine devices for that, so I will buy a gladiator for that ones.(not sure witch one)



This is a entire solution...........a scalable one.

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Re: Gladiator Discussion

Postby DHRF » Sun Dec 13, 2015 12:44


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Re: Gladiator Discussion

Postby PatMan33 » Mon Dec 14, 2015 5:07

Thank you once again for the great links!

Whichever model I end up with, I am pretty set on at least one of the pro models. I've been in the very slow process of upgrading my ancient flight hardware over the past year. A stick with twist is not on my radar as I managed to get a set of MFG Crosswind pedals. And I'd like to keep all the components at a high quality level. Durability is king for me, I want these things to last longer then me. :D


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