New Gunfighter mk3 Cam Alignment and Grinding

[eskander]

Running into an issue with a new gunfighter mk3.

Immediately installed Space-S cams and 2x 20 Springs. I used VKB's video for reference.

It notes to be careful about washers/cam order. I was careful about order, though I found it curious that the parts all fit together differently from the x to y.

The Y also looked crooked. It seemed roughly aligned enough on the bearing through the length of travel and considering I put things back the way they were, I didn't think there was an issue.

Initially, I noticed no issue with stick movement, but after a quick test session, I noticed an odd feeling on the Y axis -- uneven movement with some resistance.

Taking it apart, I see that the Y-axis cam is actively rubbing/grinding against the interior metal frame.

To troubleshoot, I have so far:
1) Taken it apart and reassembled as is, playing with tightness (loose and then extremely tight) of the cam screw;
2) Re-arranged washers by swapping them;
3) Flipped washers over;
4) Tried placing washers in different positions;
5) Tried again tightening the assembly massively (to the point that the hex tool was sticking in the screw, indicating stripping was beginning to occur.

I have seen other complaints about this and no real solution other than keep trying. I have watched the video quite a few times that support links everytime someone has this issue.

Whatever I try, I still cannot get the cam to not be crooked, especially when under force of springs. Even with significant tightness of the screw/nut, I can wiggle the cam side to side with relatively little manual force. It's almost as if the clearance/sizing between the cam screw and the 'bearing? gimbal?' or whatever the screw goes through to keep the cam in place is just too loose. There's too much play there that doesn't go away even with screw tension.

For record, the default setting that I've used (it came this way): nut > washer > bearing?/housing > washer > cam > screw head

Lastly, I tried seating the cam/screw and washer on the (what i'm going to keep calling a bearing, because I have no other word and not the mechanical expertise) and saw it began to slide out the other side of the housing. This part that the screw tunnels through -- Is it something that gets seated in the housing and then heat applied or some other mechanism to make it fully take up the room of the housing? If so, I think that part was not sufficiently heated or seated or whatever, because there's too much play there with that screw.


Any further ideas or anything you folks at VKB can do to help me?

Attached some photos:
angles - camera angles can be deceptive but this captures how 'off' the alignment is once spring tension is applied
cam-wear - you can see the shiny patch where the cam was rubbing against the internal frame.
crooked - without spring tension, even when fully tightened to the point of stripping, there's play in the cam, I can apply light manual pressure and jiggle the cam back and forward

[fallout9]

If there's play in the cam, then you need to tighten the bolt and nut on it until the play is eliminated and the cam sits perpendicular on its bolt. Most probably, between the cam and the ball bearing there's a spring washer, which has to get compressed almost completely if the cam is properly installed.

[eskander]

I'm sure you get this issue rolled up a decent bit, and I'm sure there's a number of people that had this issue with tightening.

However, at this point, I've tightened to the point that there's metal shavings from the nut and the hex tool is sticking inside the screw head because of stripping. One of the hex notches is steadily becoming more round. If I can find my torque tool to demonstrate the force of the current tightness, I will. The washer springs look fully depressed and flat from my perspective.

Through trying to examine the washer springs, I noticed I had difficulty getting an angle to see the one in between the cam and the screw bearing. Ultimately the bearing is depressed into the housing, which brings the cam slightly closer to the internal frame. This made me tinker with seeing how loose the bearing is there and I was able to move it outward away from the cam (not toward cam though from it's current slightly depressed state) with just manual force from my thumb. I got the bearing halfway out of the housing before stopping.

When I looked closer at the oscillation, it is actually going on at possibly 3 points: 1) the entire bearing seems to be slightly oscillating because it is not seated tightly into the housing; 2) the screw, even with tightness of screw/nut, seems to be oscillating within the bearing due to not being a very tight fit in that bearing; 3) perhaps with the lid/ridge of the cam and a lack of washer on outside of cam next to screw head, the cam may itself be oscillating slightly since the screw does have some small spacing between the screw and the inner hole of the cam that holds it.

None of these appear to be an issue on the X-Axis.

I've drawn a quick diagram to be clear.

EDIT: I forgot to add that I can visually see oscillation of the bearing.

[fallout9]

Is there any washer between the cam and the ball bearing? Please post some pics focused, in good lighting, taken straight above the guiding ball bearing (the one that sits at the mid of the cam).
Also, if you're damaging either the threads or the head of the bolt while tightening you're doing something wrong...

[eskander]

Not great at photos, but focused more on light/res here:
the top from center ball bearing, i thought was more over the bearing when I took it, but it does give some view at some things; you can see the alignment is off and more importantly, you can see the cam screw assembly is not 90 degrees through the entire assembly. As noted, I can see the ball bearing even oscillate a little when I move the cam side to side with my fingers.

washer-nut-bearing -- you can see the spring washer is collapsed fully (the \ line is visible).

washer-cam-bearing -- this one is less in focus, but the same for this washer between cam and bearing, the \ line is barely visible and looks a bit like an artifact

I tested with springs also: 2x 20s and a single 40 create the grinding problem. a single 30 seems to barely maintain some separation;

[eskander]

Looking at other user issues: I saw this photo -- https://i.imgur.com/prDMMcz.jpg The difference with this user's situation was that it appears the screw-cam assembly is at a 90 degree angle, but the cam is not.
In my case, on the other hand, my cam is close to 90 degrees with the opposite nut on the screw, but the whole screw assembly is off alignment -- not 90 degree to the housing.

[fallout9]

Take all washers out from here and reinstall the cam directly on the ball bearing.

[eskander]

I tried that, but it is seated too closely to the internal frame. Practically touching without tension; and again, once spring tension is added, the cam very much rides along the internal frame. There's this looseness of the cam that I just couldn't get rid of.

I rolled up a support ticket and working it on that end; also getting a 7mm wrench and will use my torque tool with the right bit to measure the torque applied to confirm tightness of the assembly.

I still suspect something is wrong with the seating of the bearing or some other part, but I'll be attempting to reconfigure this and try what folks in China say.

[fallout9]

The cam has a built in washer on the side facing the ball bearing, that should provide enough clearance. If it's too close to the gimbal then maybe the ball bearing is out of position, take a pic with ball bearing leveling in rapport to the frame and post it on the ticket.
I'll let you continue this on the ticketing system, you're on good hands.

[Oliver Blues]

Hi,nice to meet you .^^

i have a similar issue i thing, try many config of washers, and not really perfectly angle 90 and alignment. I have à little "friction", sound, and physical with roll , particulary with right direction. Same, but less important on pitch axis with up direction.

I post cause, i think, they are an issue with the bearing ball in the base ( with screw , nut , washers).And you speak about issu leveling with this part, i ordered new bearing ball ( the small that are in direct contact with cam alignment). To see if the issue come from this bearing.

[img][img]https://image.noelshack.com/minis/2022/45/2/1667942369-1.png[/img][/img]

And the cam pitch axe, is no parrallel to the base, the end cam is near that beginning.

[img][img]https://image.noelshack.com/minis/2022/45/2/1667942408-max-rolling-right-direction.png[/img][/img]

I have 3 washers on this base.

Thanks ^^.