Cam wear after a week or two

[Drano]

And if I'm seeing it right it appears the bearing's travel across the face of the cam is on a slight diagonal. It should be as fallout9 said within the bearing but also straight and aligned across it's full travel. Did you change the cams at any point? Did you put the washers back in the right order? Does the cam pivot smoothly by itself without a spring on it? It almost looks as if the screw the cam pivots on is bent or loose. I don't know what else might produce that angle of travel. Really hard to see in that pic.

[Ron61]

You need to reassemble the bearing assembly so that there is only one thin washer between it and the base. This will ensure minimal overhang and alignment with the cam. The spring washer must be placed under the screw head itself. At the same time, check the smoothness of the bearing rotation with the springs removed. Perhaps this is the problem.
Exactly the same washer must be on the cam axis, i.e. between cam and bearing.

[wolph]

Hi Wolph. As much as I can say by looking at the photo it seems that the bearing is well outside the cam and that's not good (the bearing should be inside the cam on its whole travel range); I might be wrong as the angle is tricky and in this case please ignore this message.

Hi Fallout

Thanks for the response! I hope your end of year is going well!

Please note I deliberately mounted the bearing this way to try solve the issue I'm seeing, the bearing extends about 1mm over the cam edge. The angle in the photo does make it look worse, but trust me it's about 1-2mm maximum. This means the bearing does not touch the tarnished/worn area of the cam and the stick is now noticeably smoother.

My question is can I leave it this way? it seems a lot smoother now, as the bearing does not touch the tarnished area of the cam, but as you've pointed out this may not be good for long term health of the base.

Do you think there still might be some other issue with the gunfighter base or cam mechanism? or is this looking OK?

Ali express has been extremely helpful with another issue I've experienced (explained below) - if I can ascertain whether or not there's an actual issue I can ask them to take a look at it

Please also note I've actually had another issue with my Kosmo grip on the same stick that may confuse things. The twist mechanism appears to be loose somehow, and creates friction & bumps when using the stick. Locking the twist solves this problem completely and makes the stick feel amazing. Ali express have acknowledged this as of today and are replacing the twist mechanism, but it's very possible I've been confusing these two issues from the start.

Once the new twist arrives I will remove the extra washer & re-test EVERYTHING.

[wolph]

You need to reassemble the bearing assembly so that there is only one thin washer between it and the base. This will ensure minimal overhang and alignment with the cam. The spring washer must be placed under the screw head itself. At the same time, check the smoothness of the bearing rotation with the springs removed. Perhaps this is the problem.
Exactly the same washer must be on the cam axis, i.e. between cam and bearing.

Hi Ron,

Thanks for the reply.

Please note I deliberately mounted the bearing with an extra washer, so it would not touch the tarnished area of the cam. This was an attempt to solve the problem I've been posting about and has resulted in a smoother feeling, but as you say, this may not be a suitable fix and I may need to remove the extra washer.

If I remove the washer and restore it to stock configuration there's a rough feeling when the cam touches the tarnished areas*

So mounting the bearing this way is a workaround, but my question is, is this work around appropriate as a long term solution?

If not, I will remove the extra washer now and do more testing!

* = Please also note I've actually had another issue with my Kosmo grip on the same stick that may confuse things. The twist mechanism appears to be loose somehow, and creates friction & bumps when using the stick. Locking the twist solves this problem completely and makes the stick feel amazing. Ali express have acknowledged this as of today and are replacing the twist mechanism, but it's very possible I've been confusing these two issues from the start.

Once the new twist arrives I will remove the extra washer & re-test EVERYTHING.

[Ron61]

A photo of the site will tell more than any description in words.

Perhaps, you could solve the problem with the twist by disassembling the module itself for verification. There is nothing difficult about this. Maybe something got caught during assembly at the factory and it was only necessary to remove it for normal operation. Disassembly video here.

[wolph]

Hi Ron,

Thanks!

Please note the last photo I posted is of the site I'm talking about - that's how my base is currently configured. You can see the worn out area on the cam - I added the extra washer to the bearing so it would avoid this area of the cam. It is now smoother than before. Can I leave it this way with the bearing extending 1mm over the cam ?

[Ron61]

You can leave it that way.

[wolph]

Thanks!

[wolph]

Hi all,

Just reviving this thread to say I love my gunfighters but I am still having ongoing problems with the cams in both my left & right gunfighters

As per this thread, my original issue is the cams are being ground down by every day use. Every few weeks the axis' start to feel really "dirty" and I have to open the base up to remove chrome & copper dust from the cams (as per the photos in the thread). I've had to do this since day 1 for both of my gunfighters, and have had them for around 8 months. The right stick is the worse of the two. I must have opened each base at least 20 times, just to clean them.

I eventually polished the cams with 1500 sandpaper as suggested by support and this helped significantly to finally get a smooth feeling axis, but the cams are still being ground down and need to be cleaned every 2 weeks otherwise the entire joystick becomes unsatisfactory (dirty feeling as above, as if there is sand on the cams. See pic below).

Support have been very helpful throughout all of this and I am thankful for that. They recently sent me some replacement Avia S soft detent cams. I installed these cams but straight away there was a significant grinding feeling in the axis so I removed them again - upon inspection of the new cams they are already scratched after only 1 or 2 minutes of minor testing. It's clear that these cams are not fitting my gunfighters properly so I am not using them, to prevent further damage.

Whether my fault or fault of the factory, I don't know and it doesn't matter. I would simply love it if we could work to find a solution so I don't have to open up the bases for cleaning.

I've gone back to my old cams which are now ground down enough so they fit nicely - the gunfighters feel amazingly smooth as long as I use these cams and clean them every 2 weeks.

There's quite a few threads on this forum about the exact same issue - is there perhaps a wider problem? am I doing something wrong? or am I just having bad luck in the cam lottery?

I've attached a picture of the last time I opened up one of the bases to clean it. Please let me know if more photos are needed. This is what I see every few weeks, and sorry, but it does get quite frustrating.

[fallout9]

Hi again. Looking at your picture it seems to me that your cam is not tightened enough. Please see this video, especially the part where it's explained how much you should tighten the nuts on the cams' bolts: the cam should definitely not rotate by itself on that bolt, but together with the inner cylinder of the ball bearing, the bolt, the nut and the washers.

[Drano]

Another factor would be the tightness of the bolt holding the roller bearing that's contacting the cam. It should be tight but not so much that it won't spin. It should spin easily and smoothly by itself off the cam. If it's not, it would tend to slide on the cam rather than roll as it should and would cause excessive wear. Try loosening and re-tightening that bolt feeling the action of the roller as you go. If it stops rolling, you're too tight. Back it off some.

FWIW, I have a GF MKI that had the original chrome plated cams now switched to the aluminum Avia-S cams without this issue. One thing I do to help with the life of the roller bearings is to rotate them about a third whenever I have the base open. That way it's not rolling on the same point all the time. A dab (not a glob) of grease on the cam face won't hurt either. Don't overdo the grease. Too much grease might cause the roller to slide on the cam face instead of rolling across it as it should also causing excessive wear.

[wolph]

Hi again. Looking at your picture it seems to me that your cam is not tightened enough. Please see this video, especially the part where it's explained how much you should tighten the nuts on the cams' bolts: the cam should definitely not rotate by itself on that bolt, but together with the inner cylinder of the ball bearing, the bolt, the nut and the washers.

Hi Fallout - Thanks for the reply.

I appreciate it but I've watched that video quite a few times and the cam is tight & perfectly parallel. The washer & cam & screw all rotate together, and I verify this each time I put the cams in.

This has also been suggested before however I will check it again, but are there any other suggestions?

EDIT: I just opened it up again. The cam is tight and the washer/cam/screw are all rotating together across the entire run of the cam, as expected. The bearing is not sliding on the cam at any point.

Also please see my reply to this thread back in November last year when the sticks were brand new - The same question was asked and the same answer was given. Please excuse my frustration but we have been down this road already , to no avail so far
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=4777#p43297

Since that post I have polished the cams with 1500 sand paper as suggested by Ali express support - This helped significantly to reduce the original grinding and make the stick feel good for day to day use. I'd have closed the support case at that point, except for the fact that every few weeks I need to clean copper & chrome dust from the cam (as described above, and in the original posts from November).

EDIT 2: While the base was open I cleaned the cams again with 1500 sand paper as I do every few weeks... and the stick instantly becomes like heaven to use.... This high quality is why I'm nagging Unfortunately this good feeling only lasts for a few days before the chrome/copper dust builds up again, and after about 2 weeks I get fed up and clean it.

[fallout9]

Hi Wolph. I'd be glad to tell you that there was something wrong with the original cams, because getting a new set would fix the issue. But from what I understood you already got another set which came with the same issues as the first. Having the same issues on 2 sets of cams coming from different batches makes me think that there's something wrong with your set up and not the cams. You could check this forum to see how many similar issues have been reported; you won't find many - the few existing ones ones represent a very insignificant percent from what has been shipped.
Please inspect your base again, maybe there's something wrong with the gimbal; check if the guiding ball bearings are making contact on their whole width with the cam (maybe they're connecting with the cam at a wrong angle?).
What springs are you using? Extension? Is there damage on both axes' cams?

[Drano]

I looked back at all your pics and I'm seeing the damage. It's certainly happening! You say you've changed out the cams but the damage persists. Only one thing causes that and that's friction. Something isn't moving as it's supposed to. There are two things making contact here. You've said the cam moves. The cam the cam the cam. Got it. I'm trying to get you to look at the other half of equation, the roller bearing. It's supposed to spin along the face of the cam as the gimbal moves. I'm seeing all sorts of damage on the face of the cam but every pic shows what appears to be a pristine roller. Leads me to believe it's not rolling at all, else there would be marks on that as well. That roller doesn't get a full revolution even at full deflection either way but certainly enough we'd see something on the face of it. I'm guessing there is on the side facing the cam that we can't see in your pics. If it's stuck in one position (not rolling) it may have developed a flat spot against the cam which would effectively stop it from rolling making the problem worse as time goes by. Might also tend to explain why this problem has spanned different sets of cams. The pivot bearing on the cam would have no effect on this problem.

Either take the springs off the cam or simply push it away from the roller. Forget about the cam for now. Try to spin the roller. It should spin easily and smoothly. If it's not spinning or is very hard to turn, that's your problem. It's GOT TO SPIN. If it spins but isn't smooth (grinding), that's a problem too. It could be sticking at a certain point not allowing proper travel. Spin it completely around and closely inspect the face of the roller all the way around for any odd marks across it's face that might indicate a flat spot. It may be really obvious, may not be. Try feeling with your fingernail. It should be perfectly smooth.

In short, the smooth surface of the roller rolls (not slides) along the smooth surface of the cam. If something is stopping that rolling, that's gonna cause friction which isn't supposed to be happening. Keep in mind this is a mechanic trying to help someone with what to me is a very basic mechanical problem. I've no idea what your level of skills there are. Just glad to help if I can.

[wolph]

Hi Wolph. I'd be glad to tell you that there was something wrong with the original cams, because getting a new set would fix the issue. But from what I understood you already got another set which came with the same issues as the first. Having the same issues on 2 sets of cams coming from different batches makes me think that there's something wrong with your set up and not the cams. You could check this forum to see how many similar issues have been reported; you won't find many - the few existing ones ones represent a very insignificant percent from what has been shipped.
Please inspect your base again, maybe there's something wrong with the gimbal; check if the guiding ball bearings are making contact on their whole width with the cam (maybe they're connecting with the cam at a wrong angle?).
What springs are you using? Extension? Is there damage on both axes' cams?

Hi Fallout - Thanks again for your reply!

What you say does make some sense and is what I wanted to hear (ie this is an isolated issue). I will have another look over the base construction & cam installation of both sticks to see if I can find anything wrong. I definitely want this to be my fault, as that's much easier to deal with! I guess all I can think of is that maybe I'm not tightening the cam bearing enough.

Instinctively, because I've done it so many times, I don't expect to find anything amiss - but as you say, we are seeing the same issue with multiple sets of cams. Unless the Ali express distributor just has bad sets? (of course I have no idea how support & distribution works behind the scenes - please ignore that if I'm well off the mark!)

Anyway - I'll pass on an update in a little while. Thanks again, I greatly appreciate everyone's help.