Cam wear after a week or two

[wolph]

I looked back at all your pics and I'm seeing the damage. It's certainly happening! You say you've changed out the cams but the damage persists. Only one thing causes that and that's friction. Something isn't moving as it's supposed to. There are two things making contact here. You've said the cam moves. The cam the cam the cam. Got it. I'm trying to get you to look at the other half of equation, the roller bearing. It's supposed to spin along the face of the cam as the gimbal moves. I'm seeing all sorts of damage on the face of the cam but every pic shows what appears to be a pristine roller. Leads me to believe it's not rolling at all, else there would be marks on that as well. That roller doesn't get a full revolution even at full deflection either way but certainly enough we'd see something on the face of it. I'm guessing there is on the side facing the cam that we can't see in your pics. If it's stuck in one position (not rolling) it may have developed a flat spot against the cam which would effectively stop it from rolling making the problem worse as time goes by. Might also tend to explain why this problem has spanned different sets of cams. The pivot bearing on the cam would have no effect on this problem.

Either take the springs off the cam or simply push it away from the roller. Forget about the cam for now. Try to spin the roller. It should spin easily and smoothly. If it's not spinning or is very hard to turn, that's your problem. It's GOT TO SPIN. If it spins but isn't smooth (grinding), that's a problem too. It could be sticking at a certain point not allowing proper travel. Spin it completely around and closely inspect the face of the roller all the way around for any odd marks across it's face that might indicate a flat spot. It may be really obvious, may not be. Try feeling with your fingernail. It should be perfectly smooth.

In short, the smooth surface of the roller rolls (not slides) along the smooth surface of the cam. If something is stopping that rolling, that's gonna cause friction which isn't supposed to be happening. Keep in mind this is a mechanic trying to help someone with what to me is a very basic mechanical problem. I've no idea what your level of skills there are. Just glad to help if I can.

Hi Drano,

Thanks! but as mentioned in all my previous posts, the bearing is spinning along the entire length of the cam. There is no sliding. The bearing spins freely, and it also gets coated in chrome & copper dust and also needs to be cleaned as well as the cams. I would be the over the moon if the bearing were faulty.

Fallout has hopefully addressed my concern about faulty cams and this probably being an isolated case, therefore I'll go back and reevaluate my base construction & cam installations.

[AeroGator]

I'll go back and reevaluate my base construction & cam installations.

Any updates?

[ZERO_Thunder]

I see two washers at the left of bearing. Please remove one of them.

[wolph]

I'll go back and reevaluate my base construction & cam installations.

Any updates?

Hi AeroGator! Thanks for checking in.

I did open up the base and check things but I couldn't find anything obviously amiss. While the base was opened I also took the opportunity to re-polish the cams and install them a little tighter than I usually do, in case that helps things.

As this thread is getting a little big I messaged Fallout directly and the next step looks to be taking some clear videos of the base & cam installation and passing them on. My apologies for not updating the thread after this!

I can do that and will post the vids here but I don't have a lot of time these days (newborn getting in the way of my flight time), so I'll likely wait till the cams need cleaning again and take some videos at that point (could be 1 - 3 weeks). But note as above, the cams are installed a tighter than I have historically installed them, with any luck this will help things and I won't need to clean them.

Thanks, and have a great day!

[wolph]

I see two washers at the left of bearing. Please remove one of them.

Hey ZERO_Thunder - thanks for chiming in.

If you're referring to the picture in this post with a second washer then yes this has already been removed and returned to stock before reviving this thread - Good spotting:
viewtopic.php?f=25&t=4777#p43848

Note that I added the second washer initially so the bearing wouldn't touch the tarnished sections of the cam. This actually helped a lot to remove grinding sensation and provide a smoother feel to the axis.

However, once I polished the cams with 1500 sand paper they were suitably smooth and I didn't need to manipulate the bearing to bypass any tarnished spots - I removed the second washer at this point.

[JollyRoger]

Hello everybody, I am having the same problem... I primarily fly DCS helicopter, and Elite Dangerous. Attached to my Ubutto chair. I have the Mk3 with 200mm ext. Getting same wear and tear and dust build up on foward/aft axis. Had to tear down and clean 3 times in 5 weeks. For the price of this stick, im concerned. I love it, but this sucks. After reading all threads from Wolph, I have double check everything you guys have spoken about. I havnt changed anything from stock, other than putting heavier springs on to help with extension weight/throw.

Any updates?? Or is this just a crappy chrome plating job?

[kablamoman]

Hey guys,

Just chiming it to say I have the exact issue.

Issue manifests itself as area of copper colored tarnish on the cam mixed with a black smudge that looks like ground up metal residue. The area has a slight "grindy" feeling when the bearing traverses it.

My cams are secure and tight, bearings are aligned and moving freely.

I am using Avia-S cams, with 2x50 springs on each axis with a 200mm extension. I am wondering if there could be some slippage with the bearing with rapid and forceful movement that could be causing this. I see slightly more of the wear/effect on my roll axis as opposed to pitch where I generally have to use a bit more finesse (flight sims), but it is apparent for both axes.

My only other guess would be the small manufacturer's print on the bearing has some effect or is shedding or reacting to the surface of the cam. I say this because the issue seems to affect the part of the cam where the print on the bearing is in direct contact. (There is more contact with this surface area on the roll axis cam in my case.) Admittedly this is a bit of a stretch but maybe it's a useful observation for somebody to double check.

[wolph]

Hi Team,

I've been busy but I haven't forgotten about this thread and the update that I owe it.

When I wrote my last post I had performed a test. I tightened the cams on the left stick as normal, but for the right stick I tightened them more than I normally would.

It's been a few months now and I opened both sticks up yesterday as the left stick was feeling pretty gritty and needed a clean.

The left stick had the usual large amount of chrome/copper/black dust build up, but the right stick had significantly less... only a little bit of black dust. This is different to my previous experiences, where both sticks would have a large amount of build up on the cams.


This does point to what the VKB guys have been saying since the start, that the cams are maybe not tight enough or installed correctly. My apologies for not listening properly, but as far as I was concerned they were tight enough! However It still feels odd the cams would behave like this when slightly under tightened.

At any rate, after the test results I also realised I'd been installing the cams with awkward needle nose plyers & the tiny hex key that came with the stick. Rather than with a properly sized 7mm spanner + 2.5mm hand held hex key as per the VKB video. I grabbed these tools and it was significantly easier to install the cams.

With this knowledge I also did a test with a brand new set of Space-S cams installed tightly and they still had a terrible grinding feeling. I had to remove them and put in the cams I'd already polished. But at least we have progress! so the cam situation is much better, but not 100% satisfactory unfortunately. Ideally I'd be able to install this brand new set of Avia S cams without any hassle. I guess I'm not that worried as I have a set of polished cams that feel OK.


I'll check in again a month or two and give an update now that both stick have tight cams.

@ the guys that have responded to this thread with the same issue - Make sure you have the same tools for cam installation as in the VKB video. As above, it's 7mm spanner + 2.5mm hand held hex key.

@VKB - Hope this helps for future trouble shooting with other customers, and maybe some feedback for gen 3 cams.

[AeroGator]

I have the exact issue

Just noticed your post was not answered, so you might have an impression we didn't read it or ignored it. We did read, and we're constantly working on perfecting these cam technology. Thanks for feedback, and pls don't hesitate to share more if you have updates.

[1sascha]

Going to necro this thread, because I just ran into the same issue.

Cams (Space-S) have looked fine during months and months of use since I bought the stick in September 2022. Perhaps I hadn't noticed it before today? Not sure, but today, I had what looked like shavings off my X-axis cam when I looked inside the gimbal housing. It looked to me like the roller was "scraping off" the coating of the cam ... cam looks copper-y in color now where it's been "scraped off" and the surface feels a little rough when I run my fingertip over it.

I already DMed VKB over on the HOTAS discord with a ton of pics, so I won't put them up here again unless someone wants to see them.

I took the gimbal off the UCM base-plate, removed the springs (ripping my last remaining spring removal tool in the process... yikes!) and went to clean things up as best as I could. The rougher stuff is gone now, but the cam's surface still looks worn. I initially thought it was only the X-axis that was affected, but closer inspection once I had taken out the gimbal showed that the Y-axis also has a spot where the coating is worn away. It's a smaller one than on X and it's more or less only where the roller sits when the axis is at center, so I wasn't able to spot it before removing the springs from the cam.

I double-checked both rollers and they sit as they should on the cam, washers are where they're supposed to be and the rollers themselves turn freely when the cam is pushed away from them and I use my fingers to rotate the roller. With the cams pushed into the rollers (both by hand and with the springs re-installed) the rollers do roll across the surface of the cam.

I did notice there was some black stuff on both cams - my fingers and the toothbrush and MF-cloth I used to clean things up picked up some black, slightly smear-y residue while I was cleaning.

I did use a little isopropyl to clean both cam surfaces, but the copper-y discoloration remained - only logical since its coating is worn away in those spots.

For the time being, I re-assembled everything and now will have to look for a suitable replacement for my spring removal tool - I use 50 and 40 on Y due to my 100mm extension and those things are killers for those spring removal strings...

It should be noted that the stick's action didn't feel off in any way for me. It still felt and feels smooth as silk on both axes, but perhaps that's due to the clutches being greased with Nyogel 767A? Thing is, I only want to use the cams that are currently installed (Space-S) and I don't want to have to switch to another cam. And since a different cam might just get scraped off too once I put it in, I'd rather know what this behavior is caused by - especially since I cannot see anything wrong with the installation of the cams or the rollers' behavior.

It might be of note that even though I bought the stick from VKB EU in Sept 2022, it does have an older production date (Sept 2020). Perhaps things have changed since then WRT cam surfaces and/or surface coating?



*shrug*


S.

[fallout9]

It's been discussed before - the cams are steel, covered with 2 protective layers of copper first and chrome at the top. It is perfectly fine if these 2 layers are wearing off, considering you'll clean up the residue (the protective layers could come off because of improper installation, but also if the strong springs are used). If the core is exposed and you live in a high humidity environment (like costal China), then you should check for rust from time to time. Otherwise no issues.

[Ron61]

For "heavy" springs, I have long been using a "puller" from the 3rd string for a guitar with a wooden handle. And even earlier it was from one wire from the handbrake cable of a car, which also did an excellent job and never torn.

[Drano]

I read somewhere that someone had suggested a blackhead remover. I haven't tried it but looked like it'd work and be hard to break. If/when my spring tools break I'll probably get one and check it out.

[1sascha]

For "heavy" springs, I have long been using a "puller" from the 3rd string for a guitar with a wooden handle. And even earlier it was from one wire from the handbrake cable of a car, which also did an excellent job and never torn.

Good tips...

I had used two of those super sturdy plastic strings they use to affix labels to things like hand-tools (I had just bought two Wera t-handle hex-keys and those had those strings on them). They felt so sturdy that I was hopeful they'd do the job ... and they did on the 30A and 40A springs, but when I started to work on the 50A spring, both those plastic strings snapped almost instantly.



S.

[WWCraven]

I can attest to the fact that a blackhead remover tool works perfectly for spring removal/installation.