Gladiator NXT - Sticky Twist - Help!

[netizensmith]

The twist on my new NXT has a bit of stick to it as well. I don't really care TBH but it does contrast with how smooth everything else about the product is. I imagine it might loosen up with time. In my opinion the lifting nature of the design probably plays a part in this but that is just a gut feeling; I'm not a hardware engineer. It doesn't feel like there's anythign faulty with my copy of the stick; I be they're all like this and some people care/notice and some don't. Depending how I'm holding it the stiction is sometimes there and sometimes not, possibly due to the amount of downward pressure I'm applying. What I do know is that after 20 failed attempts at a case 1 recovery in DCS with my old TM Hotas X I landed it twice on the trot the first time I used this stick so it's a keeper!

[Killa]

To Killa and Escaperaxi
Please understand the term stiction as opposed to friction, I want to offer some clarity.
Stiction is when you move along an axis and it sticks(holds briefly) and as the more pressure you apply, its skips and jumps sometimes instead of going 1% gradually, it might skip a few % at a time. Very easily seen with low quality low grease products (Thrustmaster Weapons Control System) aka TWCS.

What you will find instead in a product like the Gladiator NXT is that it has better quality grease and its applied more thoroughly, what you will experience is Friction, not Stiction!
Friction will make the actuation of an axis more smoothly but it will have resistance as this is in its nature. If this is something you don’t want, then remove the grease and you will not have this feeling.

I don't think you understand.
After you twist the stick and and it pops from center it will move smoothly. I own 3/ 6.0 powerstrokes and two of them have stiction issues with the injectors. I do know the difference.

This will clarify the difference for you.

the difference between friction and stiction is that friction is (physics): a force that resists the relative motion or tendency to such motion of two bodies in contact while stiction is (physics) the static friction that needs to be overcome to enable relative motion of stationary objects in contact.

As nouns the difference between friction and stiction is that friction is the rubbing of one object or surface against another while stiction is (physics) the static friction that needs to be overcome to enable relative motion of stationary objects in contact.

If someone would chime in about the proper way to dismantle the twist grip to relube it would be very much appreciated. I am more than happy with my gladiator. If reapplying lube is not possible it will just be something I will have to live with.

[hon0]

https://youtu.be/EmD9o6ESIUA

I followed this video to re-lube mine ("normal" SCG but I guess there isn't much difference), I used Nyogel 767A damping grease. It is much better now than it was before.

[Killa]

Thanks hon0. That's the video that I asked about earlier in this thread. The reason I asked was that there is a yoke/shaft that extends a few inches from the bottom of the NXT grip that gets screwed into the controller base that the regular SCG doesn't have as seen in the video. I suppose I could take it apart and see for myself if the internals are the same but I didn't want to damage something if it wasn't meant to be taken apart.


EDIT:

Good news. I decided to go ahead and disassemble the grip from the base on my Gladiator and took the grip apart by following the above mentioned video. Everything is the same on the NXT grip as far as I can tell except for there is a yoke on the cam of the twist grip that the 3 wire connector passes on through to the base.

After taking the twist module out and inspecting it I observed that it looked rather dry and not all the contacting surface had lubrication where they would be touching. I had a canister of nygel in my workshop and took an applicator and applied the grease very liberal to all the contacting surfaces in the cam and the tube the cam slides into. I've since put it back together, recalibrated it and played war thunder for about the last 30 minutes without any twist axis stickiness from center. It is very smooth actuating from the center now.

I may have over done it a bit as there is a small amount of the lubrication seeping out the bottom of the yoke lol. I can wipe it off as it comes and should stop in a few sessions.

[claw]

I recently received a pair of Gladiator NXTs and have been overall satisfied with them, save for one thing. The twist on both has sticktion when twisted at slower rates. Meaning, they catch and require a further degree more pressure applied to un-stick and begin moving smoothly again. The right is noticeably worse than the left, but both have sticktion when twisted at a slow rate. I emailed VKB and they recommended giving it some use time for the grease in the twist mechanism. I have been trying that, but it has not improved and I am starting to close in on my 14 day return period. I would say I have spent ~6 hours in the last week trying to break them in, I would have spent more time trying but the twist sticktion has made flying an absolute joykill, so I have just been trying to stomach flying with them as much as I can in hope it will clear it up, but to no avail. Any possible remedies that I can try? Don't want to return them, but I would honestly rather use my Logitech 3D Extreme/T1600m combo this was meant to replace.

Well i know what you are talking about and i noticed this problem since first SCG's out and its really pissed me off. All magic in grease type, improper grease causing such problems. The only one decision - disassembly, clearing old grease, filling new one.

[60mm]

Good news. I decided to go ahead and disassemble the grip from the base on my Gladiator and took the grip apart by following the above mentioned video. Everything is the same on the NXT grip as far as I can tell except for there is a yoke on the cam of the twist grip that the 3 wire connector passes on through to the base.

After taking the twist module out and inspecting it I observed that it looked rather dry and not all the contacting surface had lubrication where they would be touching. I had a canister of nygel in my workshop and took an applicator and applied the grease very liberal to all the contacting surfaces in the cam and the tube the cam slides into. I've since put it back together, recalibrated it and played war thunder for about the last 30 minutes without any twist axis stickiness from center. It is very smooth actuating from the center now.

Killa, good to hear. I decided to keep them and just lock the twists and get some pedals when I can justify the cost, but will do this in the meantime. Good thing it is repairable, but really a shame that VKB refuses to acknowledge this issue. I wouldn't have been miffed if they acknowledged it, hopefully future production batches have this problem corrected, but I can't say I will be shopping VKB again. My experience with VKB has been, sadly, as confidence inspiring as the NXT's thumb hat.

Well i know what you are talking about and i noticed this problem since first SCG's out and its really pissed me off. All magic in grease type, improper grease causing such problems. The only one decision - disassembly, clearing old grease, filling new one.

Yeah, having to re-do the manufacturer's job is lame, especially when they refuse to acknowledge it.

The stiction on my sticks still has not dissipated, so it is clearly not an issue of grease needing to be spread. I haven't opened mine up yet, but from what Killa said, it seems to just be an issue of the factory skimping on grease.

[Killa]

All I can picture in my head is someone walking out of the factory at night with a pocket full of expensive grease not used from the quota allowance. Either that or just a dab will do mentality.

[Kahuila]

Perhaps my opinion is not wanted in this thread, it seems those that are unhappy have already made their minds up on the subject at hand, but I will provide it anyhow.

Having recently received my pair of Gladiator NXTs, I decided to test and see how bad the twist of them really is. Setting them on the top of the desk there is indeed friction while twisting. HOWEVER, mounting them on my chair mounts I do not have the issue at all, they are extremely smooth no matter how slow and fine you attempt to twist them.

From my testing, having them at a higher location causes the weight of your hand and arm to push down on the stick causing increased force on the sliding surfaces in the twist mechanism. A complicating factor with having the stick on top of a desk is that having the sticks resting on a higher elevated surface would require the user to actively push down on the stick to avoid the base twisting along with the stick. Having the sticks mounted lower and attached to a surface solidly allows the weight of your hand/arm to be alleviated, as well I noticed that on the lower mounting I am actually lifting with the twist motion without thinking about it. This combination of actions is allowing there to be far less weight and thereby friction applied to the surfaces in the mechanism and therefore the fluidity of the motion is very nice with no noticed "stiction" at all.

Will more grease help with this issue for those that are having it? It will lessen the severity of it but probably not to the point of them being happy.

Just my opinions and observations.

[Killa]

Of course if you put the joystick down low and are pulling up when you use it, the cam surfaces are not producing as much friction as if you had it set high where you would be having more downward pressure on the cam. Which in my opinion most people that buy the NXT would have it on a desk (such as myself) being that it is being marketed as desktop joystick.

All I can say is that after applying a liberal and good amount of lubrication to the cam and shaft of the dry twist mechanism of the joy stick that I received it works perfectly well in any position that I have had it since.

-Killa

[Squishiest]

I have a brand new Gladiator III base with the SCG grip (Pro) and I’ve noticed stickiness in my twist axis too. I have followed this thread but I believe my issue is different from what others have described - for my device it appears to be an issue of friction between the rubber dust cover and the base of the grip. Normally the twist catches very near but not quite at the centre point in either direction and requires a little extra force to get it to the true centre, but if I pull down the dust cover with my other hand the y axis recentres smoothly without any extra intervention.

Have I installed the grip incorrectly? For now I have “solved” the issue with dead zones but that doesn’t feel great. I bought this system partly for its much better centre point accuracy after all...

[claw]

You sure you are talking about gladiator? I think you meant Gunfighter MK3 . If so - there was 2 threads already , reason - improperly installed dust cover.

[claw]

@60mm - try nyogel grease, it should be easy to acquire in your country than in Russia lolz.

Let us know about results. And send me video in teleg about your issue, wanna see myself @kabylake

[Squishiest]

You sure you are talking about gladiator? I think you meant Gunfighter MK3 . If so - there was 2 threads already , reason - improperly installed dust cover.

Correct, gunfighter Mk3 is what I should have said! I will check those threads, thank you. The dust cover was already installed when I got it - should it have been reinstalled?

[Killa]

@60mm - try nyogel grease, it should be easy to acquire in your country than in Russia lolz.

Let us know about results. And send me video in teleg about your issue, wanna see myself @kabylake

Like wise 60mm, If you do decide to regrease them I'd be curious to know your results. It took me maybe 20 minutes to take mine apart and put back together. Maybe it would go faster if I ever need to do it again now I have the experience.

One thing I forgot to mention, within the video the guy sounded like he said the screws took a 2.5 mm allen wrench. Maybe I didn't hear him right. One of the srews holding the twist mechanism was too tight for me to break it loose with the supplied screwdriver styled allen wrench. So I tried one of my 2.5's from the workshop and it was too big. Next size down at 2 mm did the trick. It squalled about 3/4 of the way out and it loosened up the rest of the way. I dabed some grease on it when I put it back in.
Edit:
The little magnet on top of the twist mechanism was adhered with something black. Not sure what it was it was sticky. I used a little flathead eyeglass sized screwdriver to pop it out. I didnt clean the sticky stuff off of the bottom of it when I put it back in the retainer ring it fits in very snug I don't think there would have been a chance for it to come out on its own if I had cleaned the bottom, but i did wipe the top off with a bit of alcohol and a cotton swab.

-Killa

[60mm]

It worked. The factory greasing for the twist mechanism is clearly insufficient. I've emailed VKB to see if they will still honor their warranty after re-greasing due to this magnet adhesive being broken, as I know they will not accept returns on them. I will report back.

Edit:
VKB confirmed this procedure does not break warranty.