How to remove delay when using Relative mode?

[Adamski77]

Hi everyone,

I'm trying to use my left SCG as a throttle and I wanted to try using Relative mode for that.

When I move the Y-axis all the way to the logical (virtual?) edge and keep it there for a few seconds, it then takes 2-3 seconds before I can make it leave that logical edge.

Is this a feature? A bug? Am I just an idiot?

How do I remove this delay?

1 - Device model and version - Gunfighter (I assume Gunfighter II, built in May 2019)
2 - Controller Firmware version - 1.977
3 - Number and type of springs used - Y=10 and X=40
4 - Тype of cams used - 30
5 - If VKB original software is used, please always mention its version - 0.90.56
If the question is in regards to joystick/pedals axes, please additionally post:
6 - Vkbjoytester screenshots. Download it here: http://ftp.vkb-sim.pro/Programms/VKB_JoyTester.zip
7 - Vkbdevcfg-c screenshots. Download it here: http://ftp.vkb-sim.pro/Programms/; make sure you're downloading the newest version.

[Ron61]

Maybe it's in the 2D dead zone? If I get you right. Uncheck this box in the logical axes and put 0.5 units, as on the X axis.
About 2D dead zone you can see here.

[fallout9]

I use a LH Kosmosima in games like Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous and even IL-2 and works great, at least for me. I've also tried to have it in relative mode but I didn't liked it. What I did was take the springs and cam off the Y axis and there's your throttle. You could have it as strafe back and forward and in this case you need an axis with center (Profile/ Axes/ Logical Axes) or a classic throttle with forward moving on the whole range (axis without center) and with a button programmed for backward movement. Let me know if you need more details and I'll provide some screenshots.

[hon0]

I'm not authorized to read this forum @Ron61. Can you do something about that?

[Adamski77]

Maybe it's in the 2D dead zone? If I get you right. Uncheck this box in the logical axes and put 0.5 units, as on the X axis.
About 2D dead zone you can see here.

Thanks for the suggestion but it didn't help unfortunately.

If I use relative mode and keep the virtual axis away from the edge then it works fine. If I let it hit the edge then it gets stuck there and I have to wait 2-3 seconds before it starts moving the other way.

Hope I'm making sense here. It's almost like the virtual numbers go up to 85535 and the physical ones stop at 65535. This means that if I have pushed it all the way to 85535 then I have to wait for it to get back down to 65535 before it starts responding again. That's what it feels like anyway.

[Adamski77]

I use a LH Kosmosima in games like Star Citizen and Elite Dangerous and even IL-2 and works great, at least for me. I've also tried to have it in relative mode but I didn't liked it. What I did was take the springs and cam off the Y axis and there's your throttle. You could have it as strafe back and forward and in this case you need an axis with center (Profile/ Axes/ Logical Axes) or a classic throttle with forward moving on the whole range (axis without center) and with a button programmed for backward movement. Let me know if you need more details and I'll provide some screenshots.

This is actually the whole reason I bought the SCG/Gunfighter. I appreciate the suggestion though.

I did actually try this method already but the rubber dust boot stops it from working well. I'm actually planning on making a new dust boot out of thinner rubber.

I'm also planning on putting sticky tape on my #10 cam and leaving a gap in the tape for the centre detent. Then I was going to use a rubber band instead of the spring to hold the cam against the bearing. No idea if it will work yet though, wanted to test the Relative mode before I tried it.

Ultimately I want to make a bracket to mount the grip sideways and make it into a proper throttle. I can't think of a better space sim throttle... whole throttle moves left and right for lateral strafe, the twist works great for vertical strafe and the Y-axis can (hopefully) be a classic throttle slider.

[Ron61]

I can only advise you to try using the NG version.
Do not use the Multidevice version for the first time - it is in the process of testing.
This is not in it and the axis responds instantly. Perhaps this will work in the simple version, but a little later.
The first time it will be a little unusual to look for old tabs - they moved to another place.
I think you’ll figure it out. But if it does not work out the first time, I’m ready to help.

[rtrski]

I did something similar but with the twist axis. In your image next to where you changed the indicator from absolute to relative, try something higher than 1X for the multiplier and you can also try something other than linear. For Twist that worked really well, depending on how much I twisted I get very rapid changes of the effective axis value with no apparent delay.

I'm also the goober over on reddit/r/hotas who mounted his left hand Kosmosima sideways for throttle usage. I just chose twist as the throttle axis so now my y axis is fore and aft translational, which obviously does temporarily modify currently set primary thrust value.

[Adamski77]

I can only advise you to try using the NG version.
Do not use the Multidevice version for the first time - it is in the process of testing.
This is not in it and the axis responds instantly. Perhaps this will work in the simple version, but a little later.
The first time it will be a little unusual to look for old tabs - they moved to another place.
I think you’ll figure it out. But if it does not work out the first time, I’m ready to help.

Thanks, I'll give it a try.

When you say "Multidevice version" does that mean I need to disconnect my other SCG when I use it or is that a feature in the program that I need to avoid? I'm not going to brick my other Gunfighter am I?

[Ron61]

There is a solution for the simple version - Alex_Oz strongly recommends setting Precis from 12 to 11 and the delay will self-destruct. Try this tip, it works.
No not like this. "Multidevice" is like one firmware for all released grips. You will not need to flash the BlackBox when changing the grip.

[Adamski77]

I did something similar but with the twist axis. In your image next to where you changed the indicator from absolute to relative, try something higher than 1X for the multiplier and you can also try something other than linear. For Twist that worked really well, depending on how much I twisted I get very rapid changes of the effective axis value with no apparent delay.

I'm also the goober over on reddit/r/hotas who mounted his left hand Kosmosima sideways for throttle usage. I just chose twist as the throttle axis so now my y axis is fore and aft translational, which obviously does temporarily modify currently set primary thrust value.

I tried it and you are right, it helped a lot. Still a delay there though but it's much better. It really does feel like it keeps recording the input to a higher number than 65535 and the quicker you bring it back into that range the quicker it responds. Thanks for that!

Out of curiosity, did you mount the whole base sideways or just the grip? What do you use for lateral strafe?

[Adamski77]

There is a solution for the simple version - Alex_Oz strongly recommends setting Precis from 12 to 11 and the delay will self-destruct. Try this tip, it works.

Nice! Set the multiplier to 2x and precision to 11 and it works perfectly. Thanks very much and thanks to Alex too.

[rtrski]

I need to check the Precision setting I'm using too now....

[rtrski]

I did something similar but with the twist axis. In your image next to where you changed the indicator from absolute to relative, try something higher than 1X for the multiplier and you can also try something other than linear. For Twist that worked really well, depending on how much I twisted I get very rapid changes of the effective axis value with no apparent delay.

I'm also the goober over on reddit/r/hotas who mounted his left hand Kosmosima sideways for throttle usage. I just chose twist as the throttle axis so now my y axis is fore and aft translational, which obviously does temporarily modify currently set primary thrust value.

I tried it and you are right, it helped a lot. Still a delay there though but it's much better. It really does feel like it keeps recording the input to a higher number than 65535 and the quicker you bring it back into that range the quicker it responds. Thanks for that!

Out of curiosity, did you mount the whole base sideways or just the grip? What do you use for lateral strafe?

Whole base. Pics of Mount here: https://www.reddit.com/r/hotas/comments ... ource=link

In that Arrangement X becomes up-down translate & Y becomes fore aft Translate. Lateral translate is with toe brakes on pedals. Mapping: https://www.reddit.com/r/hotas/comments ... ource=link

[Adamski77]

Oh wow, you went all out, nice work!

I forgot about pedals for lateral strafe and I even read your signature. The idea for x-axis being vertical strafe sounds great but I don't have pedals to fix the missing axis.

I like the idea of having all rotation on the right stick and all translation on the left. I think I found a cheapish way to test out how well it will work if I just rotate the grip and leave the base normal. It won't look as pro as your custom bracket but it should be good enough to test.

I tried relative mode by the way but it didn't work out as I had hoped. Star Citizen doesn't show where the throttle is, it only shows the current speed and so I never knew when to stop moving it. I just kept over-correcting every time. Might work better for Elite but I'm waiting for them to patch their latest patch before I try it.