Severe Gunfighter MkII Axis Glitches

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Dirt
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Severe Gunfighter MkII Axis Glitches

Postby Dirt » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:20

The X axis inputs of my Gunfighter MkII MCG Pro is showing glitches in its response and is very noticeable in game.
Can a VKB engineer PLEASE help me? I am out of ideas.

X axis
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Y axis
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System Specs:
1. EVGA x79 Classified MB
2. Intel 3970X
3. 16GB RAM
4. nVidia GTX 690 Quad SLI
5. WIN 10

Connected USB Devices
USB2 Hub
1. Blue Snowball Mic
2. SteelSeries Rival 700 Mouse
3. Realforce RGB Keyboard
4. Wooting One Keyboard
5. Thrustmaster Warthog Throttle
USB3 Hub
1. VKB Gunfighter MkII MCG PRO
2. VKB MkIV Pedals connected via the Gunfighters' blackbox


VKB Devices Hardware Specs:
1. Gunfighter MkII soft center cams
2. #20 springs
3. dry clutches uninstalled
4. MkIV pedals soft center cam
5. MkIV set too normal spring force


I have been experiencing this issue for a few weeks and have been trying to solve it myself to zero affect.

Troubleshooting Techniques Attempted:
1. Physically trying all USB2 and USB3 ports on my computer
2. Making the Gunfighter the only device on it's USB Hub
3. Updating USB drivers
4. Updating ALL system drivers
5. Re-flashing Gunfighter blackbox firmware
6. Rollback to firmware version 1.91.7
7. Physically swapping out blackbox with a spare one from my MkIV pedals
8. Physically disassembling MCG PRO grip and Gunfighter base to look for crimped or damaged wiring, soldering, or leads.

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Last edited by Dirt on Mon Mar 19, 2018 13:32, edited 4 times in total.

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Re: Severe Gunfighter MkII Axis Glitches

Postby Dirt » Sun Mar 18, 2018 6:55

Update:

I have updated to VKBDevCfg v0.85.06 and re-calibrated.

The issue appears to have stopped

Will update further if issue resurfaces.

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Re: Severe Gunfighter MkII Axis Glitches

Postby AeroGator » Sun Mar 18, 2018 18:05

Dirt wrote:Update

Sorry for the late reply.
Too late here now, but I will look into it tomorrow to make sure it doesn't come back.
Anyway, thx for effort to solve the issue, hope it worked, and thx for the update!
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Re: Severe Gunfighter MkII Axis Glitches

Postby Dirt » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:23

The issue has returned although, it is much less significant.

Image

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Re: Severe Gunfighter MkII Axis Glitches

Postby AeroGator » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:44

Dirt wrote:The issue has returned

Rescue Rangers on the way.
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Re: Severe Gunfighter MkII Axis Glitches

Postby Dirt » Mon Mar 19, 2018 5:54

rgr, thanks

Here's a Joytester screen shot while I am actually in-game.

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Re: Severe Gunfighter MkII Axis Glitches

Postby AeroGator » Mon Mar 19, 2018 6:40

Dirt wrote:Joytester screen

I can't help giving you thanks for such a professional attitude!
These diagrams are very important.

OK, there are short dropouts that *might* be caused by cable movements.
I would say, let us for the beginning and to be sure isolate the cable issue, and then move on.

Please take out the electronics and carefully dis- and reconnect both ends of the cable of the X axis, and also the cable running from the board to the round 4 pin connector on the base.

After that, please launch the Joytester and the Config utility. In the latter open External - Generic (#2 of your Configurator screenshot), then press Stat button in the left bottom corner. A pop up window will appear. Leave it where it is, return to the Config, open External - Gunfighter Base (#3), same button, another pop up window will appear. These two windows is what we need.

Start working with your joystick and watch the Joytester screen. Every time there is a flat step/shelf like the one you circled, there should be some irregularity with the information in one of the pop ups (or in both). The best would be if you mark them out, but simple screenshots will be enough, we will see for ourselves.

I know it is such a waste of your time, and bring my apologies for having to ask you to go through this. Let's hope we will find the problem from there.
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Re: Severe Gunfighter MkII Axis Glitches

Postby Dirt » Mon Mar 19, 2018 8:06

I just disassembled the base and noticed the cable jack on the X-axis pcb was pulled away slightly from its pins so I slid it back into place. I circled in red the cable jack in question. Then I attempted to disconnect the cables you mentioned. However, they were so difficult to remove I aired on the side of caution and decided to stop before I pulled an individual wire from its male plug.

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After I reassembled the base I conducted the test.
Below are the results.

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Re: Severe Gunfighter MkII Axis Glitches

Postby AeroGator » Mon Mar 19, 2018 10:01

We're pretty puzzled over here and the worst of it is that we can't put our own hands on the device.
By the way, where did you buy it? How far is the nearest dealer?

Obviously the signal is getting lost somewhere. But where?
- try to rock each and every connector head, from the USB port (you may want to replug the cable into another port just to make sure this wasn't the case); do not omit any connector around the black box, as well as the big round connector on the base;
- we are preparing a new FW update some time this week, there is a slim chance it would help;
- I guess you reconfigured your grip to a "generic device" to use slews as buttons, but still, please set it back to a MCG grip (or MCGPRO).

Try again.
If after these three steps the problem stays, we will probably have to ask the dealer to step in.
Tons of our 'sorries' don't really help but this is what I can offer you right now, the rest needs some time.
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Re: Severe Gunfighter MkII Axis Glitches

Postby Dirt » Mon Mar 19, 2018 11:05

I ordered this stick from "VKB North America" on December 16, 2017; Order #7868. I have no idea where the nearest dealer is from my location in WA, US.

I've been working on this issue for some time as can be seen by the large number of profile backups I created in search of a solution... all to no avail.
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As for checking all the cables, USB ports, etc, I have done this and come to the conclusion that if these were the cause, the issue would be present on the Y-axis or at least BOTH sides of the X-axis. However, the issue is consistently on the right side of the X axis.

Per your request I defaulted the profile, re-calibrated, and ran the test again. The results, shown below, were actually much worse

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This x-axis issue isn't the first issue I've experienced with this stick.

List of past issues and workarounds I found on my own:
1. Brake lever axis jumping from zero to full during X and Y axis deflection. This was particularly annoying because I have my brake lever assigned to "decoupled mode" in Star Citizen on button 34. So I'd be in a dog fight and the "decoupled mode" would randomly activate for no reason. This issue appeared to stop after I turned off the axis for the brake lever itself as I was only using it as a button anyway. Effectively, all I could do is sweep the issue under the rug.
2. Noisy mini stick axis's jumping randomly during X and Y axis deflection. This issue was not as annoying because my dead zones accommodated it mostly.

Even considering all these issues... I still love this stick because NO other stick on the market possesses the precision to allow the user to even detect these issues. Not to mention the target tracking ability this stick offers in game is unmatched. Additionally, even the best electronics makers let out a few bad eggs. It's the silicon lottery and when you're at the ragged edge of high-end with a product like this... you may see finite issues others with less attention to detail may pass over completely. Such as attributing axis input delay to game lag or network latency. I only found these issues because I'm a perfectionist.

What I'd like to see happen at this point is, a new replacement Gunfighter base or complete replacement MCG+base from VKB being sent to me with prepaid return label for the stick I have now. Considering I believe the issue to be a hardware level fault in the sensor or axle bearing of the x axis. I'm not bad with electronics but I doubt I could install a new sensor; I know my limits.
Last edited by Dirt on Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:59, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Severe Gunfighter MkII Axis Glitches

Postby AeroGator » Mon Mar 19, 2018 12:56

Do the following please next time you have a few minutes:
same settings, same utilities launched, same windows open; but you're not moving anything - just move it around for a bit to see it is properly connected, and leave the joystick idle for like 5 or 10 mins and watch the screens. We need to know whether the data loss happens when the grip is still as well, or only when in motion.
That will round up this stage of checking, and we will ask for a day or two to chew over it. Please bear, this case will be solved.
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Re: Severe Gunfighter MkII Axis Glitches

Postby Dirt » Mon Mar 19, 2018 13:26

This is with the default profile and a 9 minute test period.

BEGIN "NO INPUT TEST"
minute 1
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minute 2
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minute 4
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minute 6
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minute 7
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minute 9
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END "NO INPUT TEST"

SUMMATION:
minute 1:
1 error on MCG Grip

minute 2:
1 error on GF Base

minute 3:
no errors

minute 4:
1 error on GF Base

minute 5:
no errors

minute 6:
1 error on GF Base

minute 7:
1 error on GF Base

minute 8:
no errors

minute 9:
1 error on MCG Grip

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Re: Severe Gunfighter MkII Axis Glitches

Postby AeroGator » Mon Mar 19, 2018 14:34

Clear enough, many thanks for your patience and cooperation.

What we see as losses is actually OK and would not result in such grave problem as you were having.
We believe it _is_ a problem of intermittent contact loss, but sure enough locating it and dealing with it is far outside of even the most tolerant and skilled customer's ability, leaving alone the very fact that it's a boring and time-consuming procedure.

Now,
- please open a ticket at Rainer's shop and get ready to send him the device.
- we will talk to him as well.
- he will be able to tell you how to get around the postal fees (we will pay for that).
- I hope the whole thing doesn't take too long and soon you will be enjoying your flights again!
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AeroGator

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Re: Severe Gunfighter MkII Axis Glitches

Postby Ron61 » Mon Mar 19, 2018 19:47

If you allow me, I'll put in my "five cents." Looking at the provided screenshots, some of the parameters displayed in the configurator are somewhat surprising.
Well, the removal of dampers designed to get the effect, not realized in any other joysticks even of well-known brands, also causes only questions.
What should be obtained at the output of the active equalizer, thus tuning the curves at all (I emphasize) the axes?
Without going into details, I suggest resetting the settings in default and watching the response of the joystick a couple of days.
Also, if some axis is not used (there is no check-box in the logical En and Vs), then it is recommended to set Virtual in the physical for this axis in the Input. To turn it off from processing.

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Re: Severe Gunfighter MkII Axis Glitches

Postby Dirt » Tue Mar 20, 2018 1:52

In the second sentence of my first post I ask specifically for "VKB engineers".

As for your suggestions... below are the results.

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