Had to open MCG to tighten loose screws

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marcusstratus
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Had to open MCG to tighten loose screws

Postby marcusstratus » Thu Jan 18, 2018 7:13

Hey VKB, be aware that I noticed the clamp on my MCG Pro (GF Mk1) at the bottom of the grip was wobbly. I felt a rattling as I was reassembling my GF this evening from changing cams. I looked at the picture you have in Announcements with the grip Open and saw what was the issue. The two screws securing the clamp to the grip had come loose.

WwobALc.jpg


I opened it up by removing x2 phillips-0 screws on one side, x6 phillips-0 screws on the other side. The head of the 4 way stick at index finger had to be pulled off before the panel with the palm rest could slide off. I could tell right away the screws were to loose (circled in blue) so I used a phillips-2 screwdriver to tighten 'em back up and slapped the grip back together. No other issues

Open MCG.jpg

redlir
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Re: Had to open MCG to tighten loose screws

Postby redlir » Thu Jan 18, 2018 8:10


marcusstratus
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Re: Had to open MCG to tighten loose screws

Postby marcusstratus » Thu Jan 18, 2018 20:13

redlir wrote:http://forum.vkb-sim.pro/viewtopic.php?f=25&t=2883


Ah! I see. Never mind then, sounds like it's already been covered... and I did see the disassembly guide today, which means they've been working on the issue.

Drano
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Re: Had to open MCG to tighten loose screws

Postby Drano » Sat Jan 20, 2018 2:44

FYI I also noticed a wiggle at the base fitting of my MCG-Pro. I opened it up just now and found those same 2 screws barely snug. Tightened up and I'm good to go.

Be advised if you need to do this that the one screw that is up above the gate control label is in a fairly deep recess. My set of jeweler's screwdrivers were too short to reach it. A trip to the hardware store to get a P0x4 did the trick. So now I have 1057+1 screwdrivers! Because I really needed another one!
Gunfighter MkI w/MCG-Pro Grip
#10 Cams
#30 Springs
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CPU: i7-6700-K
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AeroGator
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Re: Had to open MCG to tighten loose screws

Postby AeroGator » Wed Jan 31, 2018 15:34

Sorry gentlemen, and thank you for understanding.
Yes we were in such a hurry to deliver the grips before Chinese New Year (which reads as "around Christmas").
We hoped that programmable screwdrivers with adjustable tightening force would solve the problem and probably believed these devices too much.
Hope this problem will not repeat with new batches of the MCG.
Thanks again for patience.
Best Regards,
AeroGator

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Re: Had to open MCG to tighten loose screws

Postby Drano » Wed Jan 31, 2018 18:09

AG, just an FYI, I had decided to change springs to #30. On re-adjusting the clutches I noticed the wiggle at the base connector was back. I'd only tightened it a week or so ago. Sure enough, it was the same pair of screws that holds the base connector onto the grip. I was reluctant to go crazy torquing those the first time given the materials. I tightened them but stopped short of how tight I COULD have made them.I'm a mechanical tradesman so I can see that these two screws are critical to the entire assembly. If allowed to wiggle, over time either the screws or where they thread into will strip making tightening impossible. I'm thinking some sort of locking washer is in order here. Just something to keep those screws from backing out. I have a couple of ideas. Thinking a conical tooth lock washer will do it. Will try some and check in here with what I find.

AeroGator wrote:Sorry gentlemen, and thank you for understanding.
Yes we were in such a hurry to deliver the grips before Chinese New Year (which reads as "around Christmas").
We hoped that programmable screwdrivers with adjustable tightening force would solve the problem and probably believed these devices too much.
Hope this problem will not repeat with new batches of the MCG.
Thanks again for patience.
Gunfighter MkI w/MCG-Pro Grip
#10 Cams
#30 Springs
FW: v1.95.4
VKBDevconfig: v0.88.71
Zbootloader: v1.15

CPU: i7-6700-K
GPU: MSI 1060 6GB GamingX
Mem: 16GB Corsair Vengeance
PSU: Corsair ZX1000
Mobo: Asus P8Z68 Deluxe
Win7/64

marcusstratus
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Re: Had to open MCG to tighten loose screws

Postby marcusstratus » Sun Feb 04, 2018 4:11

I'm actually not planning on putting twist in my grip, so I put a small speck of locktite on the threads of the two screws holding the mounting point into the grip. I've had no loosening issues since and have used it a fair amount by this point.

sanpats
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Re: Had to open MCG to tighten loose screws

Postby sanpats » Wed Feb 07, 2018 12:30

Drano wrote:AG, just an FYI, I had decided to change springs to #30. On re-adjusting the clutches I noticed the wiggle at the base connector was back. I'd only tightened it a week or so ago. Sure enough, it was the same pair of screws that holds the base connector onto the grip. I was reluctant to go crazy torquing those the first time given the materials. I tightened them but stopped short of how tight I COULD have made them.I'm a mechanical tradesman so I can see that these two screws are critical to the entire assembly. If allowed to wiggle, over time either the screws or where they thread into will strip making tightening impossible. I'm thinking some sort of locking washer is in order here. Just something to keep those screws from backing out. I have a couple of ideas. Thinking a conical tooth lock washer will do it. Will try some and check in here with what I find.


Drano, after tightened the second time (with more force I presume), does it come loose again?

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Re: Had to open MCG to tighten loose screws

Postby Drano » Wed Feb 07, 2018 17:44

sanpats wrote:
Drano, after tightened the second time (with more force I presume), does it come loose again?


I only got around to looking at it yesterday. The left /forward screw had become, let's say less than tight, where the other one remained tight. I took both out, applied a tiny dot of blue loctite and added a lock washer to both. Hopefully, that will be the last time dealing with that.

I must say tho that given how critical that particular connection is to the stick and that it's a high stress connection dealing with literally every movement made, I'd have devoted a bit more strength there. Heck I'm using a standard base, #10 Cams and #30 Springs! I can't imagine this holding up long with the guys using an extension and pairs of #50 springs! Time will tell!
Gunfighter MkI w/MCG-Pro Grip
#10 Cams
#30 Springs
FW: v1.95.4
VKBDevconfig: v0.88.71
Zbootloader: v1.15

CPU: i7-6700-K
GPU: MSI 1060 6GB GamingX
Mem: 16GB Corsair Vengeance
PSU: Corsair ZX1000
Mobo: Asus P8Z68 Deluxe
Win7/64

rtrski
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Re: Had to open MCG to tighten loose screws

Postby rtrski » Fri Feb 09, 2018 14:39

Drano wrote:...I must say tho that given how critical that particular connection is to the stick and that it's a high stress connection dealing with literally every movement made, ...


I don't think this is true. The 2 screw arrangement only holds that electrical connector from sliding up and down to maintain electrical contact against the mated connection. All the actual "stresses" in use are between the joystick frame, the shaft on the base, and that weird clamp/bolt arrangement that you use to tighten one down on the other.

Not to say I disagree there should be enough friction and hold to prevent the electrical connector moving...just that it isn't the motion stress carrier.

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Re: Had to open MCG to tighten loose screws

Postby Drano » Fri Feb 09, 2018 18:30

I'm guessing you haven't been following this thread, haven't opened your stick to look yourself or aren't mechanically inclined. Not one person here has complained about the stick base working loose from the gimbal shaft. This isn't a question of the electrical connection. The shaft and base are all metal. They're connected by an all metal clamp that you can tighten down pretty darn tight! That's probably NEVER gonna be an issue. The problem reported by several people here regards the 2 M3 screws that hold the base onto the plastic grip housing either arriving loose, or working themselves loose again after re-tightening. That's all there is. Two small screws threaded into a brass insert pressed into the housing. Nothing else holds those two assemblies, the base and the grip housing--together. All of the other tiny screws hold the halves of the grip housing together. That's all they do. Nothing structural at all with them.

Now are the brass inserts a marked improvement over a screw threaded into a plastic hole? Absolutely! My fighterstick is put together entirely with screws right into holes and I've never had a problem with them. But that's an all plastic stick with an all plastic gimbal with super loose springs. 20 years never had anything come loose without using a screwdriver. But brass is a soft metal. Because of this you just can't get a real good crank on the screws without destroying the insert. If a screw is loose, just working the stick back and forth will make it worse. The little wiggle becomes a sloppy wobble. Eventually the threads will strip making tightening impossible. These two screws ARE taking all of the stress between your hand and the gimbal especially in the roll vector.

I would suggest inserts of something other than brass, maybe go to M4 screws, use a lock washer, and maybe make 4 anchor points on the base assembly rather than just 2. Meanwhile, as has been discussed further up the thread, its probably a good idea to add a lock washer to those screws. I put a tiny dot of blue loctite on mine as well. Been a few days. Good so far. But you shouldn't have to do that with a brand new stick.

I don't have a problem getting in there and doing what needs to be done to keep the stick going. It's just the next thing I'd be taking my tools to in the course of the day! But there are a lot of folks out there that aren't up to the task and after plunking down no small amount of money they just want the stick to work. Maybe as their fighterstick did forever. The software is a big enough hurdle to get past without having to do surgery to a brand new stick. I'm just continuing the conversation hoping the devs might pick up on it as more than a few of these get into the wild. Would also add that other than this silly glitch I'm really loving this stick! Best stick ever hands down!

rtrski wrote:
Drano wrote:...I must say tho that given how critical that particular connection is to the stick and that it's a high stress connection dealing with literally every movement made, ...


I don't think this is true. The 2 screw arrangement only holds that electrical connector from sliding up and down to maintain electrical contact against the mated connection. All the actual "stresses" in use are between the joystick frame, the shaft on the base, and that weird clamp/bolt arrangement that you use to tighten one down on the other.

Not to say I disagree there should be enough friction and hold to prevent the electrical connector moving...just that it isn't the motion stress carrier.
Gunfighter MkI w/MCG-Pro Grip
#10 Cams
#30 Springs
FW: v1.95.4
VKBDevconfig: v0.88.71
Zbootloader: v1.15

CPU: i7-6700-K
GPU: MSI 1060 6GB GamingX
Mem: 16GB Corsair Vengeance
PSU: Corsair ZX1000
Mobo: Asus P8Z68 Deluxe
Win7/64

sanpats
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Re: Had to open MCG to tighten loose screws

Postby sanpats » Fri Feb 09, 2018 21:18

UIV from VKB recommends using DIN127 M3 split washer.

Yes, we should not have to do that with a brand new stick. I have to go buy a new Philip head screw driver to open the grip because my existing screw driver are too shot to reach one of the screw. And too prevent it from coming loose again, I have to go out and buy either a washer or loctite. The stick is already expensive and now I have to spend more to buy tools to make it functional. If I continue to use the stick when it wobble, it will eventually permanently damage the grip.

Designing the stick to allow savvy users to modify it, is good. But it shouldn’t be a requirement for users to do that in order to get a working product.


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