Gunfighter Mk II and MCGPro Folding Trigger configuration

Moderator: AdminGroup

rtrski
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2017 0:20
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Gunfighter Mk II and MCGPro Folding Trigger configuration

Postby rtrski » Fri Dec 29, 2017 5:34

Hello fine Sirs and or Madams.

New recipient of Gunfighter B (Mark II), with Modern Combat Grip Pro (MCG-Pro), in Texas, USA. Overall extremely impressed with the finish, layout, and hand feel. But I have a few questions about properly configuring the folding trigger to act as one or more buttons, including what I read to be a button "hold press" behavior with the trigger up. Mine appears to do this with the trigger folded down.

I'll attempt to follow your 7-step tech support instructions:
1. Device is Gunfighter, B-connector orientation, Mark II base, with MCG-Pro stick, Cyrillic lettering
2. Firmware reported by VKBDeviceConfig v0.83.85 (NJoy32 v1.91) is "v1.917" in the little window at the top of the software.
3. One each #10 spring installed per main joystick X and Y axis.
4. Cam #10 (default, soft center) preinstalled upon receipt and not changed.
5. Software being used is VKBDeviceConfig v0.83.85 (NJoy32 v1.91).
6. Question is not about 'axes' per se but travel operation of the folding trigger. I did load up VKB_Joytester but it does not show anything but small movements of the X and Y axis as I play with the folding trigger, instead it registers button presses in the lower window, so I am omitting these screenshots in favor of those in the next step along with my description of what is happening below.

7. (And query): My problem or confusion is that I have been told that the folding trigger should act like a held button press in the "up" configuration, release in the "down" but not squeezed operation, then have the option of button action(s) along the travel as you actually compress the trigger. What my joystick seems to register is that "folded down" is the held press, which means this continues to be held when I compress and hit the stops for the next 2 presses. What I want, ideally, is "fold up" to be a held press, "fold down" to release that, then a small amount of compression on the trigger acts as one button, while a larger amount of compression to the actual trigger stop actuates another button.

Here is how my TEST page looks with the trigger flipped down, but not squeezed:

Image

And here is how it looks fully compressed. Note that the #26 light does come on partially along the travel, and the #3 comes on toward the end of travel.

Image

Here is how the Common-n-Axes / Axes2Buttons Page is currently configured. Upon original 'get' of the configuration from the joystick only the top box and "Safe" in the highlighted regions were checked. After I checked the other two, I did "Set" them up to the joystick. Not sure if I hit anything else in the process accidentally, but there doesn't seem to be anything I can change that would reverse the "Safe" polarity, just the button number to which it is assigned.

Image

If I pull the report, I see this, which I think explains why what is called #27 for full trigger pull is showing up as logical button #3 on the Test page, maybe. This also I guess is seen on the next screenshot.

Image

Lastly, besides wanting to change the polarity on what seems to be the folding action (down being pressed, not 'up'), I don't know how to assign these as controls that external programs e.g. games will actually see, aside from the current full trigger pull which does show up. If I go to the Profile page, Buttons tab, I see #3 indicated in the Logical Layer for #24 position (circled blue). But 25 and 26 show little "not used" popups if hovered over, which I believe means they have a 'physical' mapping (the joystick knows if they've been pressed) but won't inform Windows of that fact (???)

Image



Respectfully, Richard.

(p.s. I did download and am attempting to read the manual, but walking me thru this single example would probably do a world of help to my understanding....I also freely admit I did not "SAVE" the current configuration when I first loaded up VKBDevCfg, so if I accidentally rolled the mousewheel or otherwise altered settings while flipping thru pages, the blame is on me....)

Edits: Trying to get images to show up. Also, from rrhode's post about assigning a button press to the maximum squeeze of the brake lever I think I can muddle thru the logical assignments to get buttons to show up in other programs now. I just still don't understand why my folding trigger flip down is showing as a physical held button, not flip up.
Last edited by rtrski on Fri Dec 29, 2017 21:37, edited 1 time in total.

rtrski
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2017 0:20
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: Gunfighter Mk II and MCGPro Folding Trigger configuration

Postby rtrski » Fri Dec 29, 2017 16:45

Don't know why my images aren't showing up; sorry.

Supplement to above. Common n Axes page, Axes2Buttons folder tab at right side, if I slide the slider beside the MCGPro Trigger "Armed" checkbox all the way to the LEFT, and the slider for "Fire" all the way to the RIGHT...when I compress the trigger while watching the Test page, #3 fires before #26.

I'm really thinking somehow I have a flipped connection or axis here....

Another image attempt, see if this one shows up:
Image

I don't want to void any warranty, but is it OK if I open the stick and look at the wiring?
Last edited by rtrski on Fri Dec 29, 2017 21:37, edited 1 time in total.

Sokol1
Posts: 133
Joined: Thu Jan 07, 2016 20:07
Has thanked: 4 times
Been thanked: 63 times

Re: Gunfighter Mk II and MCGPro Folding Trigger configuration

Postby Sokol1 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 17:51

You have not linked (.jpg, .gif...) but a address for Imgur folder without image extension - in this case .jpg

[img]_https://imgur.com/YEWEMJY[/img]

Right click over image in Imgur and select "Copy image address", the correct link is : without the '_' before http...

[img]_https://i.imgur.com/YEWEMJY.jpg[/img]

Result:

Image

Edit your posts to fix.

rtrski
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2017 0:20
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: Gunfighter Mk II and MCGPro Folding Trigger configuration

Postby rtrski » Fri Dec 29, 2017 23:18

Thanks for that, Sokol.

I've re-done calibration with the folding trigger 'down'. After moving all other axes over full range, when it came time for the folding trigger I folded up, then down, then squeezed slowly all the way to the stop, then released. Then ended calibration.

Now I get a button action with trigger flipped up (24, held)
Nothing with trigger flipped down but not squeezed (24 releases)
Slight compression, 25 indicates.
More compression (to the 'click') and 3 actuates (25 still on).
Compress all the way to the stop and 26 activates (3 and 25 also still on).

My folding trigger settings look a little better now - no 255's in either KD HI or KD LO - but obviously I've still done something a bit weird in my logical mappings. I wasn't entirely expecting 3 commands possible in the down position over the range. I figured 'Safe' was flipped up, then 'Armed' and 'Fire' were the buttons along the range. Yet there's another showing up too.

I'll get new pics up when I can - Imgur is having issues today with uploads according to their help page (which is good as I thought it was me screwing something else simple up. 8-D ) But I'm feeling better about where I'm at, unless someone replies "NO NO NO YOU GOOFBALL". (Cringes.)

rtrski
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2017 0:20
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: Gunfighter Mk II and MCGPro Folding Trigger configuration

Postby rtrski » Sat Dec 30, 2017 22:43

rrhode has clarified the calibration to my complete satisfaction under the Official Announcements.

Calibrating that way the "Safe" flip-up actuation (#24) shows up perfectly. All KD LO and HI ranges look good (brake lever still hits 255 at one end, but I'm using it as just a digital hold so not worried).

I'm back to the default of only "Safe" checked so I only get 24 (flipped up) or 3 (flipped down AND compressed) on the folding trigger, and think I understand where the others are as well if I choose to turn them back on again. So you can disregard the request for assistance.

And I've even managed to do my first configuration remapping (long and short press to a single button). I know, child's play for y'all but big step for bozo here.

Happy New Year to you all! Time to actually try flying with this thing...

Qyv10
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 18:08

Re: Gunfighter Mk II and MCGPro Folding Trigger configuration

Postby Qyv10 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:15

Hmmm. This is interesting. Sounds like I could turn the flip trigger into a 2 stage trigger. The normal 2 stage trigger has very little difference between first and second clicks. I use the 2 stages to fire different fire groups in elite dangerous.

Currently use a warthog grip on a mk 1 GF base. I like the trigger on it cuz it has a fairly long pull on stage 1 before stage 2 hits.
Will look into this once I can get it working correctly. Thx 8)

User avatar
AeroGator
Posts: 397
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 7:40
Has thanked: 98 times
Been thanked: 155 times

Re: Gunfighter Mk II and MCGPro Folding Trigger configuration

Postby AeroGator » Fri Jan 12, 2018 6:27

@rtrski:
I don't know how it happened that this great topic slid out of my attention.
Very good job, and thanks a ton for taking some load off our back.
I will read it in detail a bit later today or at weekend, but what I see already is quite impressive.
Thank you!
Best Regards,
AeroGator

User avatar
AeroGator
Posts: 397
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 7:40
Has thanked: 98 times
Been thanked: 155 times

Re: Gunfighter Mk II and MCGPro Folding Trigger configuration

Postby AeroGator » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:57

The new FW has just been released, hurry to get it boys before others do!
(see Announcements section)
And tell me how it works.
Best Regards,
AeroGator

rtrski
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2017 0:20
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: Gunfighter Mk II and MCGPro Folding Trigger configuration

Postby rtrski » Sat Jan 13, 2018 18:58

AeroGator wrote:@rtrski:
I don't know how it happened that this great topic slid out of my attention.
Very good job, and thanks a ton for taking some load off our back.
I will read it in detail a bit later today or at weekend, but what I see already is quite impressive.
Thank you!

'Good job'??? All I did was spread some fear and doubt because I didn't calibrate right (granted there were instructions in 3 different places that were a tiny bit unclear, but others seemed to get it right).
Anyway, handled, I know how to request support correctly, and off and flying in spaaaaaaaaace! No worries about missing it, I'm sure with hardware shipping you're suddenly feeling like a long tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs.
AeroGator wrote:The new FW has just been released, hurry to get it boys before others do!
(see Announcements section)
And tell me how it works.

For refresher, I have Gunfighter Mk II (B-connector config), MCG-Pro grip, on Windows 10.

  • Just D/L-ed the bootloader, buttontester, new VKBDevCfg, and FW.
  • Unpacked the appropriate FW to the same top level directory as everything else.
  • Ran new VKBDevCfg, got 'abnormal termination' windows response at first (W10). Guessed it needed admin privileges so scanned with Defender to be safe, then gave it privileges under the Compatibility properties, and clicked icon again. This time after the W10 confirmation pop-up it ran normally. So before I proceeded to be safe I gave same privileges to the Bootloader exe.
  • Hit 'Default' on the VKBDevCfg 'Tools' page (sadface my mods gone but knew that would happen, wasn't sure I could do a 'save' and 'reload' with a version change).
  • Hit the Bootloader button which launched bootloader just fine. Noticed this let me browse to the firmware so the step about making sure I pullled the one I wanted into the same directory wasn't 100% necessary...
  • Hit the Flash button in bootloader which seems to have worked and returned me to VKBDevCfg
  • Did a calibration before anything else. Tested buttons, axes, everything, didn't seem to see anything spurious going on personally.
  • Quickly restored the Master Mode relative axis scaling and Gate Ctrl hat axis scaling to my preferences and restored my 'Tempo1' 2nd button operation long presses on 2 of the 3 buttons...and Set, then did a Save to hold on to that just in case.
  • Started the button tester to try it out. It shows some stuff in the log right off the bat but then again the top listing is also on my Razer Orbweaver Chroma so may be nonsense. No big deal, cleared the log. (It's 4 different "POV unpressed" commands, 1,0,1,24 in order.)
  • Played. All buttons working. No weird transients while altering axes while holding buttons or clicking them, just the expected for me.
I think I'm good...off to play (spaaaaaaaaaace!) to verify Elite still recognizes all the same mappings (my logical button #s seem consistent).

rtrski
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2017 0:20
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: Gunfighter Mk II and MCGPro Folding Trigger configuration

Postby rtrski » Sat Jan 13, 2018 19:04

Qyv10 wrote:Hmmm. This is interesting. Sounds like I could turn the flip trigger into a 2 stage trigger. The normal 2 stage trigger has very little difference between first and second clicks. I use the 2 stages to fire different fire groups in elite dangerous.

Currently use a warthog grip on a mk 1 GF base. I like the trigger on it cuz it has a fairly long pull on stage 1 before stage 2 hits.
Will look into this once I can get it working correctly. Thx 8)


I tried that, dual-trigger stage 1 is "primary group", stage 2 "secondary". But if you look at the default VKB operation trigger 1 is still always held when trigger 2 hits, so you can never fire 'just' your secondary weapons that way (e.g. ease off on beams and fire multicannons only). Even if you edit the config so that when button 2 is pressed button 1 is unpressed (which I believe you can do), you still can never fire secondaries without at least pulsing primaries once first. If my primaries are say plasma accellerators or something else with a limited load and heat consequences I don't want that restriction.

I also didn't like the hand-feel of trying to use the flip-down as one of the two since for my hands at least if you grip tightly on the flip-down my middle finger on the 2stage trigger is pinched unless the 2stage is already depressed into at least the first press.

For elite right now I've mapped an early travel on the brake lever (per rrhode's instructions) as a button press and have that as Elite secondary fire, while either 1 or 2 is my primary fire on the 2stage. You don't need to program the 'button' along the brake axis - Elite will recognize that joystick axis moving in + direction as a press directly, but a little further along the range.

Qyv10
Posts: 13
Joined: Wed Jan 10, 2018 18:08

Re: Gunfighter Mk II and MCGPro Folding Trigger configuration

Postby Qyv10 » Sun Jan 14, 2018 0:52

I set it up last night but not tested it in elite yet. What I did is just like your first pic showing the MCG Pro trigger section. Uncheck the middle "Armed" point.
This will get you, up is a safe held, down is nothing, small travel is fire "1" and full travel is fire "2".

Within Elite when you do the binds do the first press as your primary. When you do the secondary you press the trigger past the first button click then hold it. Now you mouse click on the secondary so it can record then finish the trigger travel so only the bottom click shows for the secondary. If you want an "only fire the secondary" button I set the red top left button as another secondary fire in the game since you can have 2 buttons for most actions.

Now within the fire groups in game make 2 of them. The first for shields, put your beams as button 1 fire and your plasmas as button 2 fire. Then use the beams as normal and as opportunity comes you just finish the squeeze to hit the plasmas, let off a bit and your back to beams only. Now the second fire group which is for hull make your MC's as button 1 fire and again plasmas as button 2 fire. Then when shields drop you switch groups. I have this on the top POV (Master Mode) switch. Right is next group and left is previous group.

Now your all set :)

rtrski
Posts: 67
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2017 0:20
Has thanked: 24 times
Been thanked: 18 times

Re: Gunfighter Mk II and MCGPro Folding Trigger configuration

Postby rtrski » Sun Jan 14, 2018 17:57

You and I have a completely different control philosophy for Elite. (Not a bad thing, just a thing.)

I'd rather not have to switch between groups in combat every time an opponents shield drops and comes back up, so I tend to use one firegroup for combat period. Then have the ability to independently hit pri or secondary (or both) firing buttons live, if I want to use both for the DPS.

Then again, I'm not a PVP player, nor do I have the big boats with many many emplacements (aside from a new T10 but that's all turrets and I let the crew fly it while I'm out in the fighter ;-) ). So more often than not I only have 2 weapon types anyway. My PA/beams/MC discussions were actually examples spread over 2 different ship types (one PA/MC, one beams/MC).

Anyway, thanks for a peek into an alternate approach. I'm good though I think.

Qyv10 wrote:...Within Elite when you do the binds do the first press as your primary. When you do the secondary you press the trigger past the first button click then hold it. Now you mouse click on the secondary so it can record then finish the trigger travel so only the bottom click shows for the secondary....

Regarding all that, if Elite ends up mapping something like JOY1+JOY2 for a given command, I just find the Bindings file in my Local directory and hand-edit to remove the extra. Much easier than worrying about holding things while clicking the listing. You can also go ahead and with Bindings edits make the same button do multiple things which (normally) the in-game mapping won't let you do, e.g. every time you boost you're toggling your engine color. ;-)

User avatar
AeroGator
Posts: 397
Joined: Wed May 31, 2017 7:40
Has thanked: 98 times
Been thanked: 155 times

Re: Gunfighter Mk II and MCGPro Folding Trigger configuration

Postby AeroGator » Mon Jan 15, 2018 8:14

rtrski wrote:'Good job'???

:lol: :lol: :lol:
That's what happens when you have like 10 "reply to" pages open in 10 different browser tabs!
But why break the show, everything's good that ends up good!
Best Regards,
AeroGator

LukeFF
Posts: 17
Joined: Wed Feb 03, 2016 2:25
Location: Redlands, California
Has thanked: 17 times
Been thanked: 1 time

Re: Gunfighter Mk II and MCGPro Folding Trigger configuration

Postby LukeFF » Wed Jan 17, 2018 8:23

Ok, so here is my dilemma with the folding trigger: I would like to use it in Il2 BoS for Weapon Group 1 and Weapon Group 2. Trouble is, I am having trouble setting up a profile where Weapon Group 1 is sufficiently far apart from Weapon Group 2 to keep the latter one from being fired inadvertently. How would I go about solving this?

marcusstratus
Posts: 50
Joined: Sat Apr 29, 2017 5:54
Has thanked: 30 times
Been thanked: 13 times

Re: Gunfighter Mk II and MCGPro Folding Trigger configuration

Postby marcusstratus » Wed Jan 17, 2018 18:48

I did download and am attempting to read the manual


There's a manual?! I would very much like some insight on VKBdevcfg and a manual would go a long way on what all I can do


Return to “Technical Support”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 6 guests