Is this normal? Gunfighter leaning right. (Refund bounced)

Moderator: AdminGroup

VCQBR
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:51
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Is this normal? Gunfighter leaning right. (Refund bounced)

Postby VCQBR » Wed May 03, 2017 1:20

EDIT: Yes, the Gunfighter's cam loading mechanism results in a certain degree of angle, which is factored into the overall design and is normal for gimbals with one cam per axis. This does not affect the accuracy of the grip returning to center within 0.01 degrees, as it is compensated for by the MCU (Micro Controller Unit).

My Gunfighter tends to want to lean right when at rest.
When I play a game like Star Citizen or Wing Commander, when I pull the stick left and let go, it returns to center. When I pull it right and let go, it returns to right of center and the ship continues to turn right.

Top photo taken with stock (#10) cam, bottom picture taken with hard (#30) cam.

View from the rear, showing the grip mount leaning right.
2017-05-02 17.34.19.jpg


Handle center line angled right compared to a straight edge.
20170502_175126.jpg
Last edited by VCQBR on Thu May 11, 2017 23:53, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
rrohde
Posts: 617
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:28
Location: USA
Has thanked: 681 times
Been thanked: 236 times

Re: Is this normal? Gunfighter leaning right.

Postby rrohde » Wed May 03, 2017 2:00

You might want to adjust your dry clutch and loosen it. While at it, you also might want to loosen the screws marked with the red arrow in the attached image. It could be that the dry clutch is holding the grip in that position that your're showing here.
Screws to loosen.png
VKB North America
https://VKBcontrollers.com

VCQBR
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:51
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Is this normal? Gunfighter leaning right.

Postby VCQBR » Wed May 03, 2017 2:23

I've loosened the dry clutches as much as I can with out them coming apart.
(Side note, I really don't like how those bolts can spin freely)

I just tried loosing the bolt for the dry clutch. After doing so I find I can move the clutch easily and it does not appear to be preventing the gimble from moving at all.

Any other ideas?

VCQBR
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:51
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Is this normal? Gunfighter leaning right.

Postby VCQBR » Wed May 03, 2017 2:56

Upon closer inspection I believe that the section that pivots forwards and backwards is canted in the gimble.

aaron886
Posts: 21
Joined: Sat Mar 19, 2016 23:27
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 5 times

Re: Is this normal? Gunfighter leaning right.

Postby aaron886 » Wed May 03, 2017 5:33

Can you clarify with another picture? It's strange that it only happens when moving from right to left.

VCQBR
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:51
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Is this normal? Gunfighter leaning right.

Postby VCQBR » Wed May 03, 2017 6:19

It isn't that it only happens when moving right to left. The gimble/stick naturally rests to the right.
It is only when releasing it from the left that it will return to center.

User avatar
rrohde
Posts: 617
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:28
Location: USA
Has thanked: 681 times
Been thanked: 236 times

Re: Is this normal? Gunfighter leaning right.

Postby rrohde » Wed May 03, 2017 6:42

Couple of pointers here from a software perspective:

1) Don't calibrate in windows. If you calibrated using the Windows tool, you need to reset the Windows calibration.
2) Calibrate using VKBDevCfg only. The idea is that you center the stick (or close to it, with the default soft-center cam installed) and leave it there, then click "Start Calibr", move the stick to all extents, and then "End Calibr", and the MaRS sensors has found the correct center for your stick. There's no need to move the stick at all during calibration - all it needs to find is the center position.
3) If needed, increase the deadzone for each axis (the default deadzone is small, because it's been adjusted for piston airplane control).

Couple of thoughts here: The Cam loading centering system can not return to absolute center - especially when the soft-center cams are installed, because there are some design tolerances.This is permissible and does not affect controlling your sim. The good side of such cam loading is that there are no gaps in the center position; the somewhat negative side might be that there's some tolerance for absolute center position with soft-center cams.

Again, the default cam is the soft-center one (#10), which doesn't have an actual center detent (and thus mimics controllers found in real aircraft). If you prefer the feeling of a more true center, you might want to swap to the #30 cam for both axes if you like. You can also install stronger springs (the default here being a #20, which is not very strong). There are different ways to customize your new Gunfighter and the way it handles.

Also - depending on what stick you came from, it might take some time to getting used to the different feeling of a cam-based controller configuration that is so highly modular and customizable in its design.
VKB North America
https://VKBcontrollers.com

User avatar
rrohde
Posts: 617
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:28
Location: USA
Has thanked: 681 times
Been thanked: 236 times

Re: Is this normal? Gunfighter leaning right.

Postby rrohde » Wed May 03, 2017 6:51

VCQBR wrote:(Side note, I really don't like how those bolts can spin freely)


On that - you can just slightly press your finger against part of the nylon clutch and that provides enough friction so that the bolts don't spin while you're turning the nut. Once they're getting tighter, you don't need to press any longer.
VKB North America
https://VKBcontrollers.com

VCQBR
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:51
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Is this normal? Gunfighter leaning right.

Postby VCQBR » Wed May 03, 2017 14:28

Thanks,
1. I have not calibrated in windows. VKB might want to put a note about that with the Gunfighter in the box, the little quick start guide does not mention that at all. Also it does not mention about how the dry clutches are tightened for shipping.
2. I get a bunch of errors when I try to run VKBDevCfg. I am able to do the calibration.
I was under the impression I was suppose to move the stick to the extents of travel during the calibration.
I have now recalibrated with out touching the stick. That is good to know rrohde.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUQotsY ... e=youtu.be

Here is a quick video of Star Citizen. In this video I am stationary in a ship and just pulling the joystick to its limits in each direction.
I'm not expecting it to return perfectly to center. (as shown a few times in the video)
But you will see that it tends to return to a position that has the ship pulling right.

I have tried using an additional #10 spring, or using the #30 hard cam and the issue remains.

Sounds like your saying this is normal. Unfortunately that would mean that the Gunfighter isn't right for me.
Thank you for your time.

User avatar
UIV
Мастер
Posts: 5177
Joined: Mon Apr 17, 2006 16:33
Has thanked: 23 times
Been thanked: 357 times

Re: Is this normal? Gunfighter leaning right.

Postby UIV » Wed May 03, 2017 16:28

I think, the problem from calibration.
On example, my Gunfighter.
Cam#30 on the X axis, Cam#10 on the Y axis.
Deadzones are 0.5% (very small)
Springs - #20 (one spring per axis)
Clutch for X axis - small force, for Y - medium

This is the screenshot from testing software VKBJoytester http://ftp.vkb-sim.pro/Programms/VKB_JoyTester.zip
Black is X axis. I move the stick to left and release. X axis everytime returned to the central position with high accuracy. Check the graph
Scr170503211600.jpg

Test your joystick please. Gunfigter is a very precise stick, but he needs the right adjustment.

User avatar
rrohde
Posts: 617
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:28
Location: USA
Has thanked: 681 times
Been thanked: 236 times

Re: Is this normal? Gunfighter leaning right.

Postby rrohde » Wed May 03, 2017 23:41

VCQBR wrote:
I have tried using an additional #10 spring, or using the #30 hard cam and the issue remains.



Did you also widen the deadzone - either in SC or from with the VKBdevCfg? If so - to what value? Did it improve things?

Also - you mentioned getting some errors from VKBdevCfg - do you have a screenhot for us to look at?
VKB North America
https://VKBcontrollers.com

VCQBR
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:51
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Is this normal? Gunfighter leaning right.

Postby VCQBR » Thu May 04, 2017 0:33

Scr170503171830.jpg


I can widen the dead zone in some games but I am unable to do that in every game I play.
I do not know how to use VKBdevCfg. I'm not finding much by way of instructions for it.

2017-05-03 (2).png

2017-05-03.png

User avatar
rrohde
Posts: 617
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:28
Location: USA
Has thanked: 681 times
Been thanked: 236 times

Re: Is this normal? Gunfighter leaning right.

Postby rrohde » Thu May 04, 2017 0:37

Thanks for the additions info and screenshots. Let's see what UIV has to say when he comes online.
VKB North America
https://VKBcontrollers.com

VCQBR
Posts: 20
Joined: Tue Dec 20, 2016 4:51
Has thanked: 2 times
Been thanked: 3 times

Re: Is this normal? Gunfighter leaning right.

Postby VCQBR » Thu May 04, 2017 1:01

UIV wrote:I think, the problem from calibration.


I don't understand how a calibration issue could cause the stick to physically sit right of center and tend to return to right of center. Please explain.

Unfortunately, due to this center issue the Gunfighter is not the right flight stick for me.

User avatar
rrohde
Posts: 617
Joined: Thu Oct 08, 2015 9:28
Location: USA
Has thanked: 681 times
Been thanked: 236 times

Re: Is this normal? Gunfighter leaning right.

Postby rrohde » Thu May 04, 2017 2:46

Hi VCQBR,

Answering in behalf of UIV:

Based on your VKBjoytester screenshot - it seems as if your damper is set with too much friction! This is visible by only one oscillation for returning to center (compare to the screenshot that UIV posted, with a looser damper setting). This means that the damper is gripping too tightly and resulting in the issues you're experiencing in-game.

Please go ahead and loosen the copper nuts of the dry clutch for each axis, to the point where the vertical springs come off (for testing purposes) and also loosen the other two screws as shown in the screenshot I posed in my first reply to you. And then try this again. :)

About the VKBdevCfg throwing these errors - please run the VKBdevCfg software as Admin; it seems something is getting in the way there.

Also, can you run DXtweak (http://ftp.vkb-sim.pro/Programms/dxtweak2.zip) and take a screenshot of it for us to see?

Thanks.

PS: Keep in mind that the modular Gunfighter platform is the basis for a few more things to come from VKB for space sim pilots: A special left-hand grip is in development, and this grip connects to the Gunfighter base (or Gladiator Pro Mk.II, for that matter). So the Gunfighter with the SCG Space Combat Grip on the left hand, and the Gunfighter with the MCG Modern Combat Grip on the right hand, will be the ultimate HOSAS setup with more than 60 buttons and 8 axes... :)

PPS: The VKB Gunfighter is a professional stick that can be tuned to some great extent to get it just right for your needs.
VKB North America
https://VKBcontrollers.com


Return to “Technical Support”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 5 guests