MkIII T-Rudder Pedal component issue

[rrohde]

It's a surprising issue and I'm sorry the cracking noise is still here.

Well, I isolated the cracking noise and fixed it... for now.

I had to tighten the screws (circled in red on the image attached) for the left rudder arm. I then tightened the screws on the right side for good measure. As I was tightening these screws, I could hear the familiar cracking sound. Once the screws were tightened, I haven't heard any more cracking noise while using the rudder pedals... hopefully it'll stay like that.

[rrohde]

please better pictures of the ones I sen you

Hi DHRF;

I cleaned up the area around the cam that showed those shavings (nickel plating?), so right now it looks clean like the photo attached. The only thing that actually has some slight damage is the cam, which I also cleaned and you can see that in the photos shown above. Looks like a small, rough area.

Finally, the screw that you want me to take a photo of is only used for releasing the spring tension, and the area that you have circled in red to the left of the screw has marks from me using that screw when I swapped the cam around, and when I removed the cam for photos.

[Bourrinopathe]

Thanks for the details about fixing those cracking noises rrohde.
And I'll keep that in mind if I ever happen to ear the same on my pedals.
It's good you've finally fixed the problem. VKB's high-tech assembly robot must have been tired that day…

[DHRF]

It's a surprising issue and I'm sorry the cracking noise is still here.

Well, I isolated the cracking noise and fixed it... for now.

I had to tighten the screws (circled in red on the image attached) for the left rudder arm. I then tightened the screws on the right side for good measure. As I was tightening these screws, I could hear the familiar cracking sound. Once the screws were tightened, I haven't heard any more cracking noise while using the rudder pedals... hopefully it'll stay like that.

When I see the video of how to change the cam and the size of the screw and the size of the big tool to liberate the cam nut......the amount of torque that can be used whit that big tool is likely to make some marks.

I think that the procedure needs to be revised, and that the bolt must have a pattern so it cant dent or damage itself or other part.

Lest be real, Its build like a tank, but I think that the marks are because of the coating layer of chromium suffer a lack of adhesion , so is only a minor issue but some measurements for the future must be taken.
Some lubricants can affect the adhesion so we should have a recommended list...simmers will always mod and tune the hardware so is better to stay ahead, proactive and not reactive.

[rrohde]

So, I had initially 3x issues:

1) Cracking noise coming from the rudder arms where they are attached to the main housing - FIXED by tightening the screws (not sure if that lasts, however).

2) Bent pedal or pedal arm that prevented me from getting full left rudder deflection - NOT FIXED, only workaround by recalibration. The hardware itself is still misaligned/bent on the left side, while the right side is perfect (see initial images in this thread); this misalignment might have cause the cracking sound that I encountered out-of-the-box; see 1).

3) After changing the cam to soft-center, and the tightness of the centering spring, the cam itself generated a rough spot after normal usage. From the pictures you can see that the nickel plating came off, and a small area of the cam has some minor damage now, that makes the usage of the pedals less smooth - NOT FIXED, as the cam still has this issue.

So, in order for me to call this issue solved, I would like to get a) a new cam, and b) some replacement parts to replace the misaligned/bent left rudder arm/pedal. This should be covered under warranty, no?

Thanks.

[rrohde]

Lest be real, Its build like a tank, but I think that the marks are because of the coating layer of chromium suffer a lack of adhesion , so is only a minor issue but some measurements for the future must be taken.
Some lubricants can affect the adhesion so we should have a recommended list...simmers will always mod and tune the hardware so is better to stay ahead, proactive and not reactive.

If you're talking about the cam, I agree. But the damage to my cam only came from using the pedals normally. The only changes I've made were to change the cam to the soft-center, and tightened the spring. Normal use thereafter should not cause the cam to get this type of damage.
And, if the coating is the problem, why coat the cam in the first place? Just leave it untreated, and nothing can shave off...

[rrohde]

We will give you answer tomorrow.

Hi Daisy,

still no answer from UIV?

[DHRF]

Lest be real, Its build like a tank, but I think that the marks are because of the coating layer of chromium suffer a lack of adhesion , so is only a minor issue but some measurements for the future must be taken.
Some lubricants can affect the adhesion so we should have a recommended list...simmers will always mod and tune the hardware so is better to stay ahead, proactive and not reactive.

If you're talking about the cam, I agree. But the damage to my cam only came from using the pedals normally. The only changes I've made were to change the cam to the soft-center, and tightened the spring. Normal use thereafter should not cause the cam to get this type of damage.
And, if the coating is the problem, why coat the cam in the first place? Just leave it untreated, and nothing can shave off...

You misunderstand my point.
I tray to not only understand your problem not matter if is for desing/usage/quality and aply to help you but also to analyze if changes need to be make to this or all products.


Hard Chrome Plating Coating...that means Quality

Hard chrome plating is chrome plating that has been applied as a fairly heavy coating (usually measured in thousandths of an inch) for wear resistance, lubricity, oil retention, and other 'wear' purposes. Some examples would be hydraulic cylinder rods, rollers, piston rings, mold surfaces, thread guides, gun bores, etc. 'Hard chrome' is not really harder than other chrome plating, it is called hard chromium because it is thick enough that a hardness measurement can be performed on it, whereas decorative chrome plating is only millionths of an inch thick and will break like an eggshell if a hardness test is conducted, so its hardness can't really be measured directly.
Hard chrome plating is almost always applied to items that are made of steel, usually hardened steel. It is metallic in appearance, and can be shiny.

I assume the you have rare case because of the color,To be sure I will need to analyze the part.

And if any procedure to modify the functionality is not properly redacted IT should be.

So please, have some more patient, you nedd a solution not a mitigation.

[rrohde]

I appreciate your systematic approach, DHRF. I am also interested in learning what UIV thinks about this.

Maybe the change to a stiffer spring setting causes this rubbing off of the hard chrome layer? Because as soon as I did that, and used the pedals, I could hear the crunching/grinding noise that wasn't there before. I

I did, however, not have any problems with the less tight spring setting and the pointy center cam.

[DHRF]

chromium could be loose for problems in the coating process or by excessive wear.

the cam wear could be do to cam or roller out of center do to damage, also have an external problem too......

The worst scenario is a production mistake, and that's why you cant run an send parts if required because may have same problems.....¨but VKB really do quality control.

[DHRF]

chromium could be loose for problems in the coating process or by excessive wear.

the cam wear could be do to cam or roller out of center do to damage, also have an external problem too......

The worst scenario is a production mistake, and that's why you cant run an send parts if required because may have same problems.....¨but VKB really do quality control.

[rrohde]

chromium could be loose for problems in the coating process or by excessive wear.

the cam wear could be do to cam or roller out of center do to damage, also have an external problem too......

The worst scenario is a production mistake, and that's why you cant run an send parts if required because may have same problems.....¨but VKB really do quality control.

So, of course I want to help - do you want me to take additional pictures of some parts? If so, please let me know.

[DHRF]

is not production problem, something happed that bend the external part and put the cam or roller under much pressure to the other.
and the noise, the more I think about the hole problem the more I think in a shipping problem

Was the box in perfect shape?

[rrohde]

Yes, the box was fine.

[UIV]

We will give you answer tomorrow.

Hi Daisy,

still no answer from UIV?

I'm sorry for delay of answer. Because now it's hot time for production. Launch of the new joysticks (Gladiator, Mamba, Gunfighter...) takes a lot of time.
Now I will give you detailed answer. English is not my native language, but I'll try to be understandable.

1) About gap.

This two arm of pedals are fixed by ball bearing unit, which inside are with two ball bearing. Now I try to explain you about tolerance, it's engineering topic and not easy for explanation, but i try. Inside ball bearing are balls, ball bearing manufacturer make gap between ball and ball ring so that to prevent deformation from heating. As when ball bearing moves with high speed, it can cause heat. Finally inside and outside ring have tolerance in angle. Only cylindrical ball bearing can be without any angle, but they are with big size which can't be used in this place. So tolerance from axis, from ball bearing unit and teeth washer can make unit go with angle. All this tolerance plus minus can cause some angle. Of course some pedals can be without angle when this plus minus tolerance offset. unit work in assignment. For example, tolerance in angle with 1.5 degree can cause misalignment of arm, which can't be noticed. But unit for feet is long so that you can see angle.
But sensor measure angle from CAM, not from arm, so that angle from arm have no influence in function and precision. Besides, when you push this arm with feet, your feet can cause angle of arm. But you can't feel this angle with big force. And you can press pedals after calibration, you control full range of pedals, which will not break any good control of pedal. You can test its precision from vkbjoytester software and check how it works.

2) About sound.
We are grateful for this information, we will pay more attention to this unit and make changes in our next model. Thanks

3) About CAM
The screw with metal parts is used for adjusting force when clients want to change position CAM. Since CAM gets big force from spring. With this construction, it can reduce force from spring.
The destroy part which you show on CAM, it's not destroy from CAM, but destroy of chrome coating on CAM. Ball bearing moves on the CAM with so big force that can destroy any covering on metal. But CAM is made from strong steel ( carbon steel grade 45l), which can't be destroyed. While thickness of covering is only around one thousandth mm. CAM part we especially design inside of pedal which can't be seen.
Some clients whose environment with big humidity (for example tropical), we will recommend them to use some grease to prevent rust. We don't add grease from factory because when some clients try to change CAM, grease can cause dirty.

4) Do not worry about quality of VKB products. We born and live with high quality. I'd like to show you our first pedals which was 10 years ago.

One of our clients bought it 10 years ago and recently he bought our T-Rudder pedal again. This pedals is still working perfectly. Yes, after 10 years, surface of some metal parts cause damage, but contactless solution and construction from metal can work many many years. Ten years later, pedals look like old pedals, but continue to work as new ones.