How to remove delay when using Relative mode?

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fallout9
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Re: How to remove delay when using Relative mode?

Postby fallout9 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 1:01

Set the axis as absolute, take the Y axis springs out, tighten the dry clutch all the way in (not maxed though as it might damage the nylon parts), set up a deadZone of 3-4, program one of the lights on the grip to lighten up when the stick is in the deadzone on Y axis, program a button on the stick to set the y axis to 0 (in case of emergency because hover mode is stupid).
Why would the relative mode be better than this set up in SC and E:D? (I’m genuinely curious and not contesting).
Last edited by fallout9 on Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:12, edited 1 time in total.

Adamski77
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Re: How to remove delay when using Relative mode?

Postby Adamski77 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:26

I wasn't trying to say it was better, I was just curious to see how well it would work. Not great as it turns out. I wanted to try that before I spent money making a new dust cover. Do you not have a problem with that rubber cover?

I like your idea of the dead-zone. I worry I'd not see the light to know when to stop though.

Could always use the same button as speed brake for auto zero. Or... left trigger maybe, first click for zero and second click for zero in a hurry.

Why analogue? What is the reason for that?

Is there a way to know when the clutch is too tight? I read the book but all it said was too tight could break it and void warranty but it never said how tight is too tight. If I tighten it up to where the spring is fully compressed then there still isn't enough friction to even hold the grip in place. If I were to tighten it beyond that then that poor spring gets pretty squished.

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Re: How to remove delay when using Relative mode?

Postby fallout9 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 6:49

I thought you have a specific reason for using relative; I tried it and found it too lazy as throttle. Maybe it would work for liners but I'm not flying those.
Dust cover - even if I have the dry clutch tighten up it's still pushing back the grip at the ends, but being the end of range it doesn't bother me to hold it there when necessary; I'm rarely at max/max neg speed. If it bothers you you could set up some deadzones at the ends too (not too big though as your axis will get too short). I wanted to make a slimmer dust cover myself too, but in time I got used to a bit of push back.
The round light on the grip could get very shiny if you set up the full power on LED; it would also help being in a darker room.
I'd keep separate the air brake command (we're talking SC right?) from axis to 0 command; maybe bind them to the same button, but on a Tempo? Short press axis to 0 and long press air brake.
The general advice for dry clutches is to not tighten them all the way up which is understandable as they work by friction and could tear in time. What I'm doing it is tighten all the way up just to feel the point and loosen it a bit after. I can see the spring compressed but coils not touching - this is relative though as your base could have a shorter but stronger spring. Common sense applicable.

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Re: How to remove delay when using Relative mode?

Postby Adamski77 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:13

I have already tried taking out the Y-axis spring but sadly the rubber cover did bother me. Mine might have very different friction strengths and might make it worse for me. If I have the clutch tight to the point where I don't get sticktion (my spring is fully compressed at this point) then the rubber boot is so strong it presses the grip back nearly a quarter of the travel. That's why I was looking for an alternative and wanted to try Relative mode.

I really do like your light and dead-zone idea and if my plan to make a physical detent doesn't work than that's what I'll try. Thanks for that!

What was the reason for setting it to analogue though? I'm new to all of this and I don't understand what this would do.

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Re: How to remove delay when using Relative mode?

Postby fallout9 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:29

From manual:

3.4. Relative axes
3.4.1. Overview
Response of common absolute axes corresponds to grip position. Usually absolute axes are used to control plane (roll, pitch, yaw, brakes), engine (RPM, throttle, ra diators) etc. It is reasonable to use relative axes for microsticks. The rules for rela tive axes response are:
 Grip move direction determines response direction.
 Grip deviation value determines response speed. The more deviation the more speed.

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Re: How to remove delay when using Relative mode?

Postby Adamski77 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 7:45

Oh I see... Relative vs Absolute... nothing to do with analogue. I thought you were telling me I had to take the input off of v-mars and put it on analogue. Understood and thanks again for your help!

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Re: How to remove delay when using Relative mode?

Postby fallout9 » Fri Oct 04, 2019 8:11

My mistake, sorry, I'll modify the post so it won't create confusion anymore.

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Re: How to remove delay when using Relative mode?

Postby rtrski » Sat Oct 05, 2019 17:46

fallout9 wrote:...Why would the relative mode be better than this set up in SC and E:D? (I’m genuinely curious and not contesting).


I'm coming back to this discussion late, but in my case it was because I chose Twist as the primary throttle axis. Relative means I twist it up or down to adjust, then release, vs. attempting to "hold" some twisted position value. I did consider something like no or very weak springs and high clutch action instead, so the position my hand was in would also give me some feedback/recognition of current thrust level, but in the end decided I liked the relative twist method more. I did switch to stronger springs and the 'with center' cam on the GF MkII base so my up/down and fore/aft displacement returns to zero more naturally (on the X and Y axes).

As far as earlier comments re: precision, as I'm finally up in the geek cathedral for some gametime for the weekend, I see that was apparently always the setting for my stick:

Image

...so I never noticed the "delay" the OP did. Guess I just got lucky. (Not sure if I'm on latest firmware but everything works so not messing with it unless I discover a limitation of some sort.)

With the settings as shown a quick flick of the wrist tweaks the value 800-1000 units (on the 0-65K scale), and I can get from full range min to max in ~1600milliseconds of full twist deflection. (I think I stated elsewhere I have a separate button - the 'pinky' button in this case, as my Zero throttle reset. Since I can also more instantly pull back or push forward to tweak using fore/aft deflectors, that's seemed fast enough for me (PvE player mostly, hence YMMV).
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